Grappling an "overrunning" character

[Hypersmurf]

So you're saying that an AoO is just a single melee attack and is not an action at all?

Well...that tidy's things up a bit.

... until someone is dazed or stunned and wants to know what rule you're citing to deny them an AoO

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

... until someone is dazed or stunned and wants to know what rule you're citing to deny them an AoO

Can a dazed or stunned character make an opposed Grapple check?

An opposed Strength check to avoid a Trip?

How about an opposed Spot or Listen check?

A saving throw?

Is the problem with a Stunned AoO the fact that melee attacks are typically proactive as opposed to reactive?

 

[Hypersmurf]

... until someone is dazed or stunned and wants to know what rule you're citing to deny them an AoO

Can a dazed or stunned character make an opposed Grapple check?

An opposed Strength check to avoid a Trip?

How about an opposed Spot or Listen check?

A saving throw?

Is the problem with a Stunned AoO the fact that melee attacks are typically proactive as opposed to reactive?

... as my assistant will demonstrate.

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

... as my assistant will demonstrate.

Meaning?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Meaning?

Meaning you illustrated my point nicely

-Hyp.

 

[KarinsDad]

Meaning you illustrated my point nicely

And that point is?

You have yet to clearly answer any of my questions.

 

[Hussar]

Well, if FranktheDM is right, and AOO's are not actually actions, then you should be able to take AOO's if stunned because:

Dazed

The creature is unable to act normally. A dazed creature can take no actions, but has no penalty to AC.

A dazed condition typically lasts 1 round.

But, if an AOO isn't actually an action, then my dazed character with an 18 dex, reach weapon and combat expertise could still take 5 AOO's in a round.

I think I'll stick with AOO's being an action.

 

[werk]

I think I'll stick with AOO's being an action.

Which would bring us right back to the OP. Can we grapple on a AoO because it includes free action?

If an AoO is an action, then free actions can be performed in conjunction.

As for Hyp's response, I think that Daze could be covered by the beginning of the condition summary "The creature is unable to act normally." Stun is a little harder...

 

[Presto2112]

Thank you for all your help in advance.

What happens when character 1 is trying to overrun character 2 and character 2 attempts to grapple as part of the AoO and suceeds?

It's called a drop toehold and should break character 1's face.

 

[phindar]

Which would bring us right back to the OP. Can we grapple on a AoO because it includes free action?

We could call the initial touch attack a Swift Action. (Though we'd probably need to do something similar on for Trip, Disarm, and the like.)