grappling and improved grab questions

Voadam

Legend
When a big critter with improved grab grapples, do they get multiple grapple attacks based on BAB with their grappling natural weapon?

From the srd

If You’re Grappling
When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.

Attack Your Opponent: You can make an attack with an unarmed strike, natural weapon, or light weapon against another character you are grappling. You take a –4 penalty on such attacks.
You can’t attack with two weapons while grappling, even if both are light weapons.

Damage Your Opponent: While grappling, you can deal damage to your opponent equivalent to an unarmed strike. Make an opposed grapple check in place of an attack. If you win, you deal nonlethal damage as normal for your unarmed strike (1d3 points for Medium attackers or 1d2 points for Small attackers, plus Strength modifiers). If you want to deal lethal damage, you take a –4 penalty on your grapple check.
Exception: Monks deal more damage on an unarmed strike than other characters, and the damage is lethal. However, they can choose to deal their damage as nonlethal damage when grappling without taking the usual –4 penalty for changing lethal damage to nonlethal damage.


Improved Grab (Ex): If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required. Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a –20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents. A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text). When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.
 

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Voadam said:
When a big critter with improved grab grapples, do they get multiple grapple attacks based on BAB with their grappling natural weapon?
Based on BAB? No. Creatures only get, at most, one attack per round with each of their natural weapons.
 

Grapple?

I do not play it so they do. For example, a huge scorpion has 2 claws, if he hits with either of them he gets to start a grapple for free, but I don't roll for one claw, then check grapple, then roll the second, then grapple, etc.

I assume a mechanic where if either claw hits a grapple is attempted. This does result in only one grapple attempt -- but I think two or more grapple attempts in a single round is too much action for one round.

Moticon
 

moticon said:
I assume a mechanic where if either claw hits a grapple is attempted.

Hmm. It reads to me that if a claw hits, you resolve the free grapple attempt immediately... then continue with any other attacks (at which point the scorpion may already be grappling; if not, the other claw might still provide another chance to grab).

-Hyp.
 

sledged said:
Based on BAB? No. Creatures only get, at most, one attack per round with each of their natural weapons.
Once you are grappling, you use the rules for grappling, not the rules for natural weapons or manufactured weapons.

The rules for grappling state that you can only use one natural weapon or manufactured weapon to attack with (barring special abilities that allow you to break this rule), and your attacks are now based on your BAB.
 
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Caliban said:
Once you are grappling, you use the rules for grappling, not the rules for natural weapons or manufactured weapons.

The rules for grappling state that you can only use one natural weapon or manufactured weapon to attack with (barring special abilities that allow you to break this rule), and your attacks are now based on your BAB.

That's how I'm reading it. So big critters can get iterative attacks when grappling but not when attacking.

I'm not sure how it resolves though when they do a full attack in a round with natural weapons and multiple ones have improved grab, say two claws with IG and a bite. After a succesful grab they are grappling so do you still resolve the other attacks?
 


Voadam said:
That's how I'm reading it. So big critters can get iterative attacks when grappling but not when attacking.

I'm not sure how it resolves though when they do a full attack in a round with natural weapons and multiple ones have improved grab, say two claws with IG and a bite. After a succesful grab they are grappling so do you still resolve the other attacks?
I don't think so, but the rules don't say anything one way or the other.

I stop their natural attack sequence after any successful grapple, and then check their iterative attacks. If the creature has taken less natural attacks than it has iterative attacks, I give it any remaining iterative attacks it might be due.
 

I'm not sure how it resolves though when they do a full attack in a round with natural weapons and multiple ones have improved grab, say two claws with IG and a bite. After a succesful grab they are grappling so do you still resolve the other attacks?

That all depends on whether the creature uses the "grapple with the IG appendage" or conducts the grapple normally. If the creature just uses the appendage then it takes -20 on the grapple check and can carry on with its other attacks for the round normally, even grappling another opponent with other IG attacks. If the creature conducts the grapple normally it forgoes any other attacks and enters grapple mode.
 

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