Grappling and Multiple Attacks

[Hypersmurf]

Cap the natural weapons but not the manufactured ones? Sounds hardly fair.

It's what happens to lots of creatures in their normal Full Attack.

Check the Tyrannosaurus.
Base Attack Bonus: +13
Full Attack: Bite +20 melee (3d6+13)

He gets one attack. No matter what. It's simply a feature of natural weapons - you never get more than one attack with them for having a high BAB.

Likewise, the Marilith with six shortswords can still only attack with one of them in a grapple. (She can attack with it four times, but she can't attack with her other five shortswords.) It doesn't matter how many manufactured weapons she has; she can only attack with one of them.

The carrion crawler is simply obeying two distinct rules. 1/ Only one natural weapon in a grapple. 2/ No iterative attacks with natural weapons.

-Hyp.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

And therein lies the root of my disagreement.

Cap the natural weapons but not the manufactured ones? Sounds hardly fair. Guess I'll have to await my answer from the Sage.

I've always found it to be the reverse, really. The natural weapons almost always win out over the manufactured ones.

CR 9 Fighter: Sword/Sword.
CR 9 Black Dragon: Claw/Claw/Bite/Wing/Tail (?!)

The Carrion Crawler has 8 attacks. What's an equivalent fighter have, two again?

I have absolutely no problem with critters being at a slight disadvantage in a grapple. At least, at a disadvantage assuming they don't have Improved Grab, which gives them the advantage again.

 

[noeuphoria]

But just so we're clear in this thread, the tyrannosaurus with a +13 BAB would get 3 opposed grapple checks if he spent his entire round grappling, yes?

 

[Prism]

But just so we're clear in this thread, the tyrannosaurus with a +13 BAB would get 3 opposed grapple checks if he spent his entire round grappling, yes?

Thats right but only 1 of those could be a real attack (at -4). The others would have to be deal damage, pin, escape etc or even swallow if it started the round grappling

 

[noeuphoria]

Well, attacking at -4 isn't actually an opposed grapple check, you just roll to hit with a -4 penalty b/c you're grappling with the person. An opposed grapple check denotes you and your opponent rolling off against each other. So our next question: Tyrannosaurus makes 2 opposed grapple checks and then swallows the character. He now is not grappled, but could have made 1 more opposed grapple check. Even if there are characters in range, I would rule that what he did is the equivalent of a full-attack, he can now take a 5 foot step or simply end his turn; no other actions are possible. But, scenario 2: a fighter with +16 BAB is grappling, he elects to use the "attack at -4" option. He kills his grappling opponent with the first 2 hits. The fighter is now not grappled. I would rule that since he was using the full attack action, he has 2 more attacks, and he can make a 5 foot step. The last, confusing option: a monk with +11 BAB is grappling: he elects to use his BAB to make opposed grapple checks. With his first 2 opposed grapple checks, he kills the opponent using the "deal damage equivalent to an unarmed strike" option for winning opposed grapple checks. Now the monk is no longer grappled; but can he make one last attack. For consistency's sake, I would say same case as the dinosaur, his last opposed grapple is just wasted, he can now make a 5 foot step or end his turn.