Grappling Gas

[Three_Haligonians]

Okay, so last night in our gaming session my sorceror cast Telekinesis to grapple a vampire. On the vampire's turn he changed into Gaseous Form. The spell says "It [A gaseous creature] can pass through small holes or narrow openings, even mere cracks,". It also says "It can't attack or cast spells with verbal, somatic, material, or focus components while in gaseous form."

So would the gaseous vampire have to make an opposed grapple? Would it be allowed to, considering it cannot attack? Or would it simply slip through the grasp?

Thanks,

R from Three Haligonians

 

[Jack Simth]

Odd case; personally, I'd say DM call (read: whichever way will make the plot go better).

However, the spell referenced does make the vamp Insubstantial, which is a kinda defined term:

INCORPOREALITY

Spectres, wraiths, and a few other creatures lack physical bodies. Such creatures are insubstantial and can’t be touched by nonmagical matter or energy. Likewise, they cannot manipulate objects or exert physical force on objects. However, incorporeal beings have a tangible presence that sometimes seems like a physical attack against a corporeal creature.

(Emphasis added)

If Insubstantial -> Incorporeal in this instance, then the Telekenesis from the Sorceror holds the vamp firmly, as it's magical energy, but the vamp can oppose for the same reason (not applying force to objects)

 

[Starglim]

Telekinesis can grapple a creature, and nothing in either spell prevents telekinesis from affecting a creature in gaseous form, so I believe it would work. The vampire is not actually incorporeal, as it has no miss chance and mundane weapons can affect it if they overcome its DR.

A grapple check is not an attack. A creature that is grappled should be able to make an opposed grapple check unless there is some reason against it. I'd rule that the vampire could only use Escape Artist, not Strength, to make this check, but there's nothing in the rules to support that.

 

[Hawken]

The spell should not work since there is no physical object for the spell to grapple on to. The spell works like you were trying to move something with a hand, and you can't grab "air" with a hand; it would simply slip through or around the "fingers" being used to grapple it. If you doubt this, try to grab the vapor that you exhale on a cold morning or a bit of fog or morning mist. If you can do that, and its in your hand when your hand opens, then you could logically grapple with mist.

But this is assuming that the vampire's mist form can even be seen. That wasn't mentioned in the question.

Regardless, the vamp gets its SR against the spell (if it has any), and a Will save if the caster tries to move it using TK.

I think a better spell would have been Otiluke's Resilient Sphere, but since this is higher level, maybe it could be used to telekinetically duplicate the effects of that spell. In that case, DM's call. But otherwise, you can't grapple a gas anymore than you can grapple water, and there's nothing in the spell description that allows either of these events. So, I'd have to say based on the rules, and a fair amount of logic, physics and common sense, the caster shouldn't be able to grapple mist.