Grappling: Multiple Attacks / How many BABs does a character have?

[EntropyDecay]

A question regarding grappling and iterative attacks:

When a character/creature has multiple attacks and therefore can attempt multiple grapple checks per round, are the grapple checks following the first one modified like normal iterative attacks?

Example:
Medium Creature with BAB 12/7/2 and strength bonus +3. The creature could do a maximum of three grapple checks per round thanks to its BAB. Would the checks be made with 15/15/15 or with 15/10/5?

One of my players has the opinion it would be the second version, while I think the first one is correct. But neither of us could find the rules passage that confirmed his version. His main reason was that since all iterative attacks suffer a dropdown after the first one, this would also be true for grappling. My main reason was that if his version would be true then why does any D&D 3.5 monster statblock only contain one grapple number.

 

[AGGEMAM]

Your grapple check is your BAB+Str mod+special size mod.

The key here is understanding that your BAB goes down with iterative attacks as described in the Class and Level Bonuses section of the Classes chapter in the PHB.

Monster list a single grapple number for ease, the special size mod being the major reason. If a monster has two attacks eg 12/12 and it's grapple check is 16 then it's grapple checks on the two grapple checks are also 16/16

 

[Li Shenron]

One of my players has the opinion it would be the second version, while I think the first one is correct. But neither of us could find the rules passage that confirmed his version. His main reason was that since all iterative attacks suffer a dropdown after the first one, this would also be true for grappling. My main reason was that if his version would be true then why does any D&D 3.5 monster statblock only contain one grapple number.

IMO the touch attacks to start the grapple follow the BAB progression 15/10/5 or whatever, but the following grapple check is always the same.

IOW:

first attempt = touch +15 , if successful -> grapple +15
second attempt = touch +10 , if successful -> grapple +15
third attempt = touch +5 , if successful -> grapple +15

It is debatable however.

- this reminds me I wanted to open another thread -

 

[EntropyDecay]

Hmm... two replies, two different answers. WotC should really consider to explain grappling in their "Rules of the game" series.

 

[Li Shenron]

Hmm... two replies, two different answers. WotC should really consider to explain grappling in their "Rules of the game" series.

It can be my fault. The grappling rules have always been my weak point

 

[Fester]

Since it doesn't state anywhere in the grapple description that it uses your highest BAB, then I'm with AGGEMAN on this one. Your Base Attack Bonus for your first attack is your highest, for your second attack it is your next highest, for you third attack your next highest and so forth. And it is this (appropriate) BAB which applies to your grapple check IMHO.

 

[EntropyDecay]

Since it doesn't state anywhere in the grapple description that it uses your highest BAB, then I'm with AGGEMAN on this one. Your Base Attack Bonus for your first attack is your highest, for your second attack it is your next highest, for you third attack your next highest and so forth. And it is this (appropriate) BAB which applies to your grapple check IMHO.

Since when is there such a thing as multiple BABs per character? I always had the impression that a character has only one BAB that does grant additional attacks at reduced BAB. After all it is the Base Attack Bonus.

From the SRD:
Full Attack
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.
The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.
If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.

Reading the above SRD part seems to prove my point. There is only one BAB. Additional attacks are granted by it, but they do not represent additional BABs.

 

[Fester]

Since when is there such a thing as multiple BABs per character? I always had the impression that a character has only one BAB that does grant additional attacks at reduced BAB. After all it is the Base Attack Bonus.

Okay, poor wording, but it doesn't change the point I was making. The phb reads for melee attacks that "...numbers after a slash indicate additional attacks at reduced bonuses..." (p22) and that a "grapple check is like a melee attack roll" (p156).

 

[AGGEMAM]

Since when is there such a thing as multiple BABs per character? I always had the impression that a character has only one BAB that does grant additional attacks at reduced BAB. After all it is the Base Attack Bonus.

Actually that's exactly what the book states.

You cannot find this in the SRD, you have to open your PHB.

From the PHB (page 22 of the 3.0 version)

Base Attack Bonus: .. Number after the slash indicate additional attacks at reduced bonuses: "+12/+7/+2" means threee attacks per round, with the base attack bonus of +12 for the first attack, +7 for the second, and +2 for the third.

 

[Camarath]

From 3.5 SRD

If You’re Grappling
When you are grappling (regardless of who started the grapple), you can perform any of the following actions. Some of these actions take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action). If your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses.