Grappling: Multiple Attacks / How many BABs does a character have?

[Gaiden]

This thread brings up a question that I have had for a while: what happens with a creature with multiple natural attacks but no iterive attacks in a grapple?

I have always played it that once the creature is grappled it can only make one grapple check per round (unless it has multiple iterive attacks).

Aggemam seems to suggest otherwise. Is there an official rule on this?

 

[Camarath]

This thread brings up a question that I have had for a while: what happens with a creature with multiple natural attacks but no iterive attacks in a grapple?

I have always played it that once the creature is grappled it can only make one grapple check per round (unless it has multiple iterive attacks).

Aggemam seems to suggest otherwise. Is there an official rule on this?

BAB can allow multiple attacks when using manufactured weapons or while in a grapple. When attacking with natural weapons you are specifically not allowed to gain these additional attack. I do not believe that this means that creatures with natural weapons can not gain the benifits of their BAB when using actions which allow creatures gain additional attack based on BAB (such as using weapons or grappling).

 

[AGGEMAM]

Ok, I should have specified this more.

A monster can use its natural weapons to grapple or it can use it's BAB. The former is usually the better choice for those monsters that have natural weapons. Some monsters (like humans ) don't have natural weapons and can only use it's BAB for iterative grapple checks.

This means that a monster with natural weapons can use all of it's natural weapon attacks with a full attack action for grapple checks but it does not gain iterative attacks from BAB when doing so.

 

[shilsen]

This means that a monster with natural weapons can use all of it's natural weapon attacks with a full attack action for grapple checks but it does not gain iterative attacks from BAB when doing so.

At a -4 to hit, correct?

 

[Camarath]

Ok, I should have specified this more.

A monster can use its natural weapons to grapple or it can use it's BAB. The former is usually the better choice for those monsters that have natural weapons. Some monsters (like humans ) don't have natural weapons and can only use it's BAB for iterative grapple checks.

This means that a monster with natural weapons can use all of it's natural weapon attacks with a full attack action for grapple checks but it does not gain iterative attacks from BAB when doing so.

I do not believe that is the case because the grappling rules spell out that if your base attack bonus allows you multiple attacks, you can attempt one of these actions (actions [listed below that] take the place of an attack (rather than being a standard action or a move action)) in place of each of your attacks, but at successively lower base attack bonuses. It does not seem to allow one to use attacks gain from sources other than BAB (feats, class abilties, TWF) to attempt multiple actions thus I do not believe that having multiple natural weapon allows multiple grapple actions. Grappling creautres also do not appear to be able to use the Full attack action since that is not one of the list options.

The Attack Your Opponent grapple option allow for attacks with natural weapons while grappling. And creautes with Improved Grab may damage their opponent with successful grapple checks with the attack that established the hold (which IMO means they can use the Damage Your Opponent option with the natural weapon use with Improved Grab).

As far as I can see that is no rule that allows additional grapple actions for having natural weapons. If I am wrong could you please point out the appropriate rule section.

 

[telkar]

Hi, in the case where the attacker has reduces bonuses in the opposite check, how do you manage the defenser bonus ?
Generally opposite check are done with equity => you remove 5 on grapple check for defenser too ? Or does the defenser get a free infinite bonus ?

And more deeply : as you use the rules from attacks bonus (Full Bonus / -5 / -10 ...), how do you manage this case :
The fighter with 3 Attacks must make grapple checks at, for example BAB : +12 / +7 / +2 ... on a mage
The mage has BAB of +5 / nothing / nothing.

--> Does he "defends" at +5 3 times ? giving him like 2 free attacks rolls ? Does he make them with a BAB at +5 / +0 / -5 ? (and try to find where the rules permit this kind of BAB bonuses ...).

Even more deeply : multiple opponent grapple ONE guy ... the defenser can make 6 rolls ? And same questions/compitations/rules breaking.

Grapple is mainly 2 rolls : An attack rolls (that depend on rulls with main and secondaries attacks bonus) AND an opposite roll.
Opposite rolls don't use the attacks rules. Simple.
Or use All the attacks rules ... and then the mage can't roll on the 2nd grapple attemps as he can't make a 2nd attack.

 

[Morrus]

17 year necro! Close to a record?

@telkar I suspect the people you're replying to aren't around any more!

 

[telkar]

ARf, not see the date, i'm currently in game (discord) and we had the question
And the best discussion i found on the net here

And no obsolete date for D&D ! D&D forever !!!

(outch, late here, first quick reading your answer, i have a fear of my understanding on "I suspect the people you're replying to aren't ...." and was thinking 5 secs not alive !! (but i confirm with translate tool that's not that )

 

[CapnZapp]

17 year necro! Close to a record?

No, there are semi-recent necroes from 2002 (so ~18 years) in this subforum, such as this thread:

ways to increase BAB other other than leveling

one of my party members is level 20 and is one point away from having 4 normal attacks. He asked me if I knew of any way to get one more point... because once you get to epic levels your BAB never goes up. He sugested using a wish to change one of his wiz levels for a ranger level. BTW he is...

www.enworld.org

How can you check a forum easily? By setting the filters for "Last updated: 1 year" and "Sort by: First message, ascending" you can get a quick look - threads that are recently updated but with a very old date of first post.

PS. @telkar welcome to the forums!

 

[telkar]

No, there are semi-recent necroes from 2002 (so ~18 years) in this subforum, such as this thread:

Ouf not the worst here