Great City Campaign Setting...not 4e...sucks

[jdrakeh]

Honestly? I'm only interested in the maps (what they do best), so system compatibility is kind of a non-issue for me.

 

[GVDammerung]

Good thing for us not moving to 4e.

But what did you 4e folks REALLY expect? There's no way most 3rd party folks are going to use the GSL for settings and flsgship items that their going to have no control over via the termination clause and other things in the GSL

Throw away adventures like goodman games is one things. Flagship type items like Pathfinder, the city setting, Tomb Of Horrors and the like? Your never going to get in 4e.

QFT. This is the legal, very practical crux of the matter.

The GSL offers a publisher the opportunity to publish their IP now and have Wotc tell that publisher later that they can never, ever publish it again. Wotc doesn't grab a publisher's IP, Wotc reserves the right to bury it via the GSL. Only a publisher who has little regard for their IP, or who trusts that somehow "everything will be okay," would publish their IP under the GSL.

For something like The Great City, publishing under the GSL for 4e would be insane. Oone Games produces quality, not throwaway, products. The Great City promises not just quality but continuing viability in the long run, ie its a flagship or signature product. The GSL would threaten the continuing viability of the Great City at Wotc's sole and unfettered discretion. Again, to publish like that takes lots of faith or little sense.

Oone Games made the smart choice to publish The Great City under the OGL. It was really the only choice for the long run.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I've got Ptolus, Freeport (both versions), Temple Quarter, Thieves Quarter, hang out on Lulu hoping Arcane Quarter will show up there and more, so I don't need Great City, but system isn't an obstacle to me. Heck, Flying Buffalo proved that with city supplements 25 years ago.

That said, I've used a ton of other 0ne Games maps, and they're swell.

 

[Wyrmshadows]

I will say this.

Anyone who doesn't get product they think might be awesome just 'cuz it's not for their little pet system is being a big dunderhead.

Expand your horizons! Work your conversion muscles! Grow a pair of courage orbs!

Think it's gonna be awesome? Get it. Awesomeness is mostly system independent.

Here, here!


Wyrmshadows

 

[Treebore]

Ummmm, market refers to the willingness to buy product, not the amount of product available. More 4E PHBs were sold than expected, so the market (or rather, possible market, as we won't know the real market for at least a few months now) is larger then expected. Having fewer providers doesn't change the size of the market one bit.

Sales of the 4E PH are not indicative of how big the 4E market is, its indicative of how big the interest is. How big the 4E market will actually be has yet to be proven. WOTC certainly isn't going to say they expect interest to drop off and sales to do so as well. That would be too honest.

They would much rather be hopeful, and positive, and bolster Hasbro's share prices as much as possible.

Interest in 4E will drop off just like it did for 3E. Very few people have what it takes to be long term RPG players. The time commitment and reliance on so many other people to be reliable eventually just becomes too much to bear for many people.

 

[Scribble]

Interest in 4E will drop off just like it did for 3E. Very few people have what it takes to be long term RPG players. The time commitment and reliance on so many other people to be reliable eventually just becomes too much to bear for many people.

Which seems to be their reason for the DDI... (If they can ever get it working.)

 

[Treebore]

QFT. This is the legal, very practical crux of the matter.

The GSL offers a publisher the opportunity to publish their IP now and have Wotc tell that publisher later that they can never, ever publish it again. Wotc doesn't grab a publisher's IP, Wotc reserves the right to bury it via the GSL. Only a publisher who has little regard for their IP, or who trusts that somehow "everything will be okay," would publish their IP under the GSL.

For something like The Great City, publishing under the GSL for 4e would be insane. Oone Games produces quality, not throwaway, products. The Great City promises not just quality but continuing viability in the long run, ie its a flagship or signature product. The GSL would threaten the continuing viability of the Great City at Wotc's sole and unfettered discretion. Again, to publish like that takes lots of faith or little sense.

Oone Games made the smart choice to publish The Great City under the OGL. It was really the only choice for the long run.

Besides, how is a city system dependent? Even if it is, I thought 4E was supposed to be so friggin easy and streamlined? If it is conversion should be a snap.

I'm just glad I play the system I play, that allows me to easily use anything I want. I get to buy any cool product I come across.

 

[Minicol]

I am glad to see a great product escape the clutches of 4e.

I did not know oone game products before, but now, this is a guaranteed buy.

 

[Xyxox]

I am totally lost. I have no idea what point you are trying to make here. How is a user married to the GSL, if you are free to use GSL products, use OGL products, use 4e products that don't use the GSL, or convert OGL products to 4e?

The only 4E products you'll be able to purchase will be put out by WotC or directly approved through WotC via the mechanisms of the GSL. Under 3.x, WotC had no approval process for third party products released under the OGL and very little in the way of an approval process for products released under the d20 license. In other words, WotC will completely drive the direction of all products for 4E via the GSL. This was simply not the case for 3.x, nor will it ever be.

If you're okay with that limitation, then 4E would seem to be a good buy for you. I prefer keeping options open, so 4E is not a good purchase for me, at least at this time.

Except where it violates copyright law.

With games, there is very little that can be termed to violate copyright law. Even "mind flayers" is questionable, hence WiotC's movement towards using "Illithid" almost exclusively. Certainly trademarks such as "Forgotten Realms" and "Dragonlance" cannot be violated, but in terms of copyright so long as I don't quote published material verbatim, gaming mechanics cannot be considered to fall under the heading of copyright once a game is made public. I can't present the mechanics in the same manner as WotC, but then again, why would I want to?

But you can about 4e. As long as you don't violate copyright law you can produce 4e content whenever and how ever you choose and publish that content freely or for profit.

Actually, no, you can't. You can produce material that is usable with 4E, but you cannot proclaim it is usable with 4E. That violates trademark, unless you ahve licensed that with WotC which is the purpose of the GSL.

So?

So, I can proclaim to the world that something I produce is usable with the d20 SRD and is OGL. I cannot say the same about material for 4E unless I am producing it under the auspices fo the GSL.

 

[Scribble]

Besides, how is a city system dependent? Even if it is, I thought 4E was supposed to be so friggin easy and streamlined? If it is conversion should be a snap.

It is for the most part. I've been regularly mining old dragons lately for various things... Something I haven't done ina while...

But conversion is conversion, and always adds an extra step. So if you're strapped for time, conversion, no matter how easy, can be not worth it.

I'm just glad I play the system I play, that allows me to easily use anything I want. I get to buy any cool product I come across.

Me too.