Great City Campaign Setting...not 4e...sucks

[Xyxox]

I doubt that third party publishers are deciding to forego the much larger expected 4e market just so they can ensure to keep the pdf sales on old product for an expected much smaller market eight years from now.

Have you got a link to demonstrate the "much larger expected 4e market"? I haven't seen any such speculation (outside WotC, of course). The limiting nature of the GSL makes me suspect the opposite, in fact, will be what's seen.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

I never said nor did I imply there was. There is, however, a requirement to stop publication of anything related to 3.x or the OGL in any way for a third party company to enter into the GSL agreement.

You said that you became married to the GSL "in a sense", implying that playing 4e excluded you from using OGL stuff. That is not the case. I also, from my limited understanding, a publisher doesn't have convert all of their product lines over to GSL. They can keep some stuff OGL and some stuff GSL. Again, from my limited understanding.

Yep, you cannot use "Beholders" or "Mind Flayers (Illithids)".

Look at Reaper minis. They have an "Evil Eye Lord" and "Bathalians" and there isn't a thing WotC can do about those.

The thing about the OGL is that it is NOT limiting. If I create an "Eye Ball Monster" and publish it under the OGL, it's now open content for anybody to use.

And if there are really great 4E monsters, races, or classes, I simply create an OGL version and I'm done. So long as I don't violate the copyright for the 4E version, I'm cool. The great part is since the 4E mechanics are so different, converting back to 3.x open content nearly insures I'm not violating copyright.

Well if its a matter of converting, then users don't have to worry about GSL or OGL at all. As a user, I can convert OGL stuff to 4e just as easily as the reverse. If I create a 4e campaign site, I just need to be carefull of copyright infringement of 4e stuff just as the OGL guy has to be whenever borrowing stuff from there. As a user, I still don't see why anyone thinks they need to make an irrevocable choice between OGL or GSL. Publishers, sure, its a big decision for them. Users, not so much.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Since TSR milked Greyhawk for a couple of decades, and they and WotC both milked Forgotten Realms for longer than that, I'd say 0one has plenty of milking left for their IP.

And there are a whole host of other settings like Planescape, Darksun, Ravenloft and others that are dead. I don't think that becoming the next Forgotten Realms is a reasonable expectation.

 

[Xyxox]

You said that you became married to the GSL "in a sense", implying that playing 4e excluded you from using OGL stuff. That is not the case. I also, from my limited understanding, a publisher doesn't have convert all of their product lines over to GSL. They can keep some stuff OGL and some stuff GSL. Again, from my limited understanding.

Keywords "in a sense".

Well if its a matter of converting, then users don't have to worry about GSL or OGL at all. As a user, I can convert OGL stuff to 4e just as easily as the reverse. If I create a 4e campaign site, I just need to be carefull of copyright infringement of 4e stuff just as the OGL guy has to be whenever borrowing stuff from there. As a user, I still don't see why anyone thinks they need to make an irrevocable choice between OGL or GSL. Publishers, sure, its a big decision for them. Users, not so much.

Users don't make an irrevocable choice except in one aspect, the money spent. Even that is not completely irrevocable, though I doubt your inital outlay will be returned in most instances if you choose to sell.

Where 4E is limited will be in the number of choices for content you will have.

 

[Xyxox]

Dupe

 

[Xyxox]

And there are a whole host of other settings like Planescape, Darksun, Ravenloft and others that are dead. I don't think that becoming the next Forgotten Realms is a reasonable expectation.

And yet, all of the "dead" setting you just mentioned were milked longer than 0one's IP has been.

If you don't like 0one's IP, I'd suggest you don't buy it. As for me, I had never seen their products prior to this thread (there's that choices thing again) and given the low cost of the products, I'm very inclined to begin purchasing their products.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Have you got a link to demonstrate the "much larger expected 4e market"? I haven't seen any such speculation (outside WotC, of course). The limiting nature of the GSL makes me suspect the opposite, in fact, will be what's seen.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iT8TD8VdKcb_JE6ewOa6XKQyYQ1wD918KTVG0

I would imagine that most of the people that bought that PH are planning to play it.

 

[BraveSirRobin]

Keywords "in a sense".

In what sense did you use the word "married" if not to imply exclusivity?

Users don't make an irrevocable choice except in one aspect, the money spent. Even that is not completely irrevocable, though I doubt your inital outlay will be returned in most instances if you choose to sell.

Where 4E is limited will be in the number of choices for content you will have.

So exclusive OGL users are not limited from 4e products because they can simply copy and covert products to an OGL version, but for some reason exclusive 4e users can't do the same to OGL products?

 

[BraveSirRobin]

And yet, all of the "dead" setting you just mentioned were milked longer than 0one's IP has been.

If you don't like 0one's IP, I'd suggest you don't buy it. As for me, I had never seen their products prior to this thread (there's that choices thing again) and given the low cost of the products, I'm very inclined to begin purchasing their products.

Huh? I didn't say anything about 0gones product being bad or anything of the sort. I was attacking the notion that one should feel sorry for companies going with the GSL because they will someday, many years from now, have their liscense ,and thereby their prodcut, terminated when that really shouldn't be a big issue for most products.

 

[Psion]

Excellent.

I've already been tapping into great city products (which are very well done) for my River of Worlds campaign.

3.5 support is doubleplusgood.