Great Strength, Charisma, and such as non-Epic feats

[nothing to see here]

It seems that there are a lot of 'borderline' epic feats -- substantially stronger than normal feats -- yet not necessarily unbalancing.

What we did in our high level campaign was allow each non-epic character to choose a single epic feat during non-epic levels. The Prerequisites for this feat were reduced (ability scores 4 less than written, skill ranks 5 less than written) -- to make it more accessible. They still had to be 15+ level to take the feat, and only one epic feat per character could be taken before 21st level. A little change -- but it added a bit of extra oomph.

 

[Scion]

There are quite a few nonepic feats that are 'better' than equivalent epic feats. Pointing to any epic feats and saying, 'that feat in book x is stronger than this feat and should not be allowed' just isnt helpful ;/ Sure, some of the epic feats are strong, others are incredibly weak.

When I placed the stat boosting feats in they caused no problems at all. Having to give up some other option for that stat boost is always a very hard choice. After all, many feats give bonuses that simply cant be done by stats alone, they add in special things, bend rules, and generally give larger bonuses over a smaller area. Specialization is much more powerful in d&d than generalization (most of the time, hence prcs being said to be too powerful sometimes, even if in total overall power they are about the same).

It should be noted also however that I changed several feats that I have always felt were too weak or cumbersome.

Dodge: +1 dodge bonus to ac all of the time when you arent denied your dex bonus to ac. (you still have to designate a single foe for certain feats however, it doesnt work on them all at once)

toughness: as improved toughness, but can still be taken multiple times, and without the crazy prereq.

stat boosters

and quite a few others.

Still no one took toughness, one guy took a stat booster in order to boost his 16 casting stat to a 17 so that at level 4 he could have an 18. But quite a few times he said that he should have taken just about any other feat instead as it just felt like a wasted feat to him most of the time (and most of the time it is, around half of the characters carear it simply doesnt 'do' anything).

Anyway though, just stating that I think they are fine to add to most groups.

 

[ARandomGod]

I think it's a great idea.
As an epic feat, it seems a complete waste.

Personally, I'd have it be a feat that can only be taken at first level. Although I'd allow it to be taken as many times as you want. Which would be to say, twice for a human, once for any other race.

Actually, I once considered this as a regional human feat... If you were from the appropriate region, and were human, you could take this feat. It would be excellent with point buy systems, and even with roll systems would let you give your character a little extra boost.

And, really, at the cost of a feat, which is half of the humans special ability, they get a +1 to a single stat? That seems no problem at all.

Now, as for it being just a general feat....
That's a little more powerful. I still don't see too much against it, even allowed from first level on. As long as it's not a class specific feat then you can only get them every three levels.. it really seems like something that would be applied in moderation even for munchkins. Or, to say, especially for munchkins.

I personally like the idea best if it's a first level only feat, representing being stronger/smarter/whatever genetically, as opposed to representing working out, meditaing, or whatever would increase a stat. I figure the current stat progression we have already encompasses that.

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

As an example, there is a feat that gives you +1 to any existing DR that you have, but you can only gain it once. Once you hit epic, you can gain greater DR multiple times. You could put a level limit on it, say only at 1st, or not until 8th, But make a new feat. It allows you to bump up any one stat by 1, and can only be taken one time before epic.

 

[Scion]

you must be talking about the feat in complete warrior, which is horrible

there are two others in savage species which are much better, actually useful really. the complete warrior one.. gah.. lol.. much like that faster healing feat, which actually makes you heal 'slower' sometimes. woo, great feat there.

 

[Pax]

I've always felt the Epic feats should add 2 or 3 to their respective attributes. If you set the Epic ones at 2, and then let folks take pre-epic versions that give +1 (min level 6 sounds reasonable), then I think that'd be okay.

But the attribute-boost feats just seem to be VERY much on the LOW end of power, as epic feats go.

Keep in mind, some epic feats HAVE, since, been moved to pre-epic level. Improved Precise Shot, for one (the ELH version is called Uncanny Accuracy, and the effects, prerequisites, etc are pretty much the same!)

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

I envision a human Forsaker taking these feats... +5 due to levels, +10 due to Forsaker class, +8 due to Feats... That's +23 to your initial stats (a likely 30% increase). Of course, you can't use any magical items (hm. Are the ability bonuses considered "special abilities" for the Forsaker? ie would he lose his ability bonuses were he to renounce his Forsaking ways?) that could grant him +11 in each stat (enhancement items + inherent bonuses)...

AR

 

[James McMurray]

I don't remember if the Forsaker specifically removes the cap, but inherent bonuses cannot go higher than +5. Thus Forsakers can only get +5 to two stats, not +10 to one.

And don't forget to get your Forsaker a Gnome Artificer version of Bull's Strength for a +4 nonmagical enhancement bonus.

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

The ability bonus is indeed an inherent bonus, although I wasn't talking about putting all your stat increases in the same ability.

I forgot all about non-magical enhancements

AR

 

[Crothian]

I don't remember if the Forsaker specifically removes the cap, but inherent bonuses cannot go higher than +5. Thus Forsakers can only get +5 to two stats, not +10 to one.

it doesn't get rid of that cap, but some people do rule 0 that it does