Great Villain Showdown: The Final Match! [The Winner is..]

[reveal]

Some people hate the prequels so much, they are completely devaluing the effect that the original trilogy has on all (most?) of us.

Like I said previously, before the sequels I would have voted Vader the baddest villain there is. He was pure, cold, calculating evil who let nothing get in his way. Unfortunately, the prequels made him seem more like a kid who was manipulated into becoming evil than someone who was purely evil. This vote is supposed to be about the best villain, not the villain who had the biggest impact on us. The Joker is also cold and manipulating. True, he gets beat a lot but he keeps coming back. He murdered Robin. I think he's the better villain of the two, even though Vader did have a greater effect on me growing up.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Vader.

But it should be noted that the Joker and Vader are two completely different achetypes, and if people aren't voting against the prequels(which many are likely doing), they're probably voting for that archetype.

What it comes down to is fairly simple...who is more evil to you? The chaotic and insane murder with no real reason behind what he does, or the fallen hero and the betrayer. BOTH are very evil concepts, but to some its simply true that chaos is more terrifying than betrayal.

 

[reveal]

...if people aren't voting against the prequels(which many are likely doing)...

I hope people aren't voting for Joker just to spite the prequels, either. But you have to admit, the prequels did change a lot of people's views on Vader, for better or for worse.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I hope people aren't voting for Joker just to spite the prequels, either. But you have to admit, the prequels did change a lot of people's views on Vader, for better or for worse.

Oh, I agree that they did. However, it doesn't actually change VADER. It changes Anakin...remember, Anakin died and BECAME Vader. Vader was born of evil, not the little kid that drives so many people crazy even though most all kids are like that anway.

But its not important. People's choices are their own, and I'm willing to believe most people simply find random killing more evil than betrayal.

 

[reveal]

Oh, I agree that they did. However, it doesn't actually change VADER. It changes Anakin...remember, Anakin died and BECAME Vader. Vader was born of evil, not the little kid that drives so many people crazy even though most all kids are like that anway.

To me, Anakin is Vader and Vader is Anakin.

 

[Mad Hatter]

What are you talking about Anakin died and became Vader? Vader is just the aspect of Anakin that was an angry, spoiled, willful, spurned child who had taken enough crap off of the arrogant Jedi that denied him his rightful place. Forsaking the character of Anakin is spitting in the face of Vader seeing as how it was Anakin's emotional instability that caused Vader to emerge. And it really doesn't matter if he was manipulated into being Vader, the fact remains that he's Vader and did some pretty bad things all in the name of order etc.

And I was under the impression that this vote was about the best villain. You have to take the person in total not just key instances. I've been preaching all along that a villain who is redeemed and becomes a good guy when compared to a villain that has never expressed remorse or redeemed falls short; everything else being equal. And it isn't about hating the the prequels.

I'm of the firm belief that Vader shouldn't have made it this far anyways, and that isn't hating on Vader. It's loving better villains than he.

 

[Qlippoth]

Darth Vader

 

[The Serge]

The Joker.

 

[Tonguez]

I hope people aren't voting for Joker just to spite the prequels, either. But you have to admit, the prequels did change a lot of people's views on Vader, for better or for worse.

What Prequels? - there are only three Star Wars movies, we're still waiting for them to find a good director to finish off the story...

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

I'll say one last thing on the whole Anakin/Vader thing and then shut up about it.

Simply put, if you follow everything that was said in the movies and by George Lucas, Anakin DID die when Darth Vader was born. Anakin only finally returned when he killed the Emperor and that was because of Luke. So when you judge the whole character of Darth Vader, you're judging from the point he betrays the Jedi(

Spoiler

when he attacks Mace Windu and gives into Palpatine

) to the point that he killed the Emperor. THAT is Darth Vader...the rest is Anakin Skywalker. Hence why the ghost as the end of RotJ was changed to look like Anakin BEFORE he was consumed by Vader.

Again, I'm not going after anyone who didn't vote for Vader or doesn't agree with this opinion...but its what Lucas and the movies say, and I'm simply trying to clear that point up. Though I do have to say that its very interesting that only among geeks does there seem to be any dispute as to Darth Vader NOT being the ultimate villain.