Greater Command.

[Scratched_back]

Now, have I interpreted this spell incorrectly or is it now COMPLETE tat?

As far as I can remember, in 3.0 you could command a target with virtually anything contained within one single word... in 3.5 that seems to have been nerfed somewhat. Then I look at Greater Command and see that not only do you have to pick from a pre-selected list of five commands, but they also get a save EVERY round thereafter.

Also, for rules clarification, one of the commands is "Drop" meaning drop all the items you're carrying. With a duration on this does it mean everytime people try and retrieve what they've dropped they drop them again until the duration expires or is that just me?

Needless to say, it's a bit crap for a 5th level spell now :\

 

[Pinotage]

Now, have I interpreted this spell incorrectly or is it now COMPLETE tat?

As far as I can remember, in 3.0 you could command a target with virtually anything contained within one single word... in 3.5 that seems to have been nerfed somewhat. Then I look at Greater Command and see that not only do you have to pick from a pre-selected list of five commands, but they also get a save EVERY round thereafter.

Also, for rules clarification, one of the commands is "Drop" meaning drop all the items you're carrying. With a duration on this does it mean everytime people try and retrieve what they've dropped they drop them again until the duration expires or is that just me?

Needless to say, it's a bit crap for a 5th level spell now :\

It's still a very good spell. Being able to affect 9 targets with a Will Save, even if it's just for one round is very useful. Many creatures have poor Will saves, and this spell is just great for that. While the commands have been trimmed, I think you can get a lot of mileage from this spell. Still one of my favourites for Level 5. Note that even Hold Person now allows a Will save each round - seems to be a general theme in 3.5e, one I'm happy with.

'Drop' seems a bit strange, but I guess that after they've dropped their first item, they just stand there and stare at it?

Pinotage

 

[Scratched_back]

Note that even Hold Person now allows a Will save each round - seems to be a general theme in 3.5e, one I'm happy with.

'Drop' seems a bit strange, but I guess that after they've dropped their first item, they just stand there and stare at it?

Pinotage

I appreciate the fact that they nerfed the holds and suchlike. There were too many mages with spell focus/Greater spell focus enchantment, 20 int and spellcasting prodigy, just roaming around freezing giants for giggles... but this spell in particular seems to be pathetic now!

The fact that if you choose the "fall" command, they can still act from the floor as WELL as getting a save every round! Casting from the floor etc... oh the terror of that fifth level spell!

 

[Pinotage]

The fact that if you choose the "fall" command, they can still act from the floor as WELL as getting a save every round! Casting from the floor etc... oh the terror of that fifth level spell!

Then don't ask mages to fall. Use it on fighters who are rubbish with ranged weapons while prone. There are scenarios and circumstances under which all those commands are useful - just because it's poor in one, doesn't mean it's a poor choice. I repeat, how often can a spell affect 9 targets with a minimum Will Save DC 17 even if it's only for one round? 9th Level characters with poor will saves have +3, good will saves have +6. It's going to buy you a lot of time. Even if it only affects half of the 9 creatures for 3 rounds, it still splits the entire group in half, making the combat a lot easier.

Pinotage

 

[Shadeus]

It's still a very good spell. Being able to affect 9 targets with a Will Save, even if it's just for one round is very useful. Many creatures have poor Will saves, and this spell is just great for that. While the commands have been trimmed, I think you can get a lot of mileage from this spell. Still one of my favourites for Level 5. Note that even Hold Person now allows a Will save each round - seems to be a general theme in 3.5e, one I'm happy with.

'Drop' seems a bit strange, but I guess that after they've dropped their first item, they just stand there and stare at it?

Pinotage

That's not quite right. Greater command lasts 1 round/level, not just 1 round. I didn't notice the limit on the number of commands until this thread. It's a shame "die" and "sleep" don't work any more.

 

[Pinotage]

That's not quite right. Greater command lasts 1 round/level, not just 1 round. I didn't notice the limit on the number of commands until this thread. It's a shame "die" and "sleep" don't work any more.

Yes, but it can last for one round since you get a save every round. I was giving the worst case scenario where all enemies pass their second save.

Pinotage

 

[moritheil]

Commanding someone to die is just goofy

Still, I'm pretty sure someone will come up with a way to make this spell efficient.

That's not quite right. Greater command lasts 1 round/level, not just 1 round. I didn't notice the limit on the number of commands until this thread. It's a shame "die" and "sleep" don't work any more.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Halt is a pretty darn useful command and basically turns Greater Command into mass daze monster with no HD cap (but language dependency). If you're up against a group of fighter or rogue types, freezing them for even one round is worth a 5th level slot (since your party can often take them out during that round).

 

[Andre]

Halt is a pretty darn useful command and basically turns Greater Command into mass daze monster with no HD cap (but language dependency). If you're up against a group of fighter or rogue types, freezing them for even one round is worth a 5th level slot (since your party can often take them out during that round).

Halt in any kind of damaging terrain can be nasty. A couple walls of fire and half the party could be roasted alive. Then there are spells like cloudkill, acid fog, creeping doom, etc.

Or command the party to halt as they are climbing up a rock face, and knock them off. Or while crossing a bridge over a chasm.

Even in normal circumstances, greater command can be a real killer against an unwary or unlucky party.