Greater Shadow Evocation Force Cage

[Thanee]

Just to be sure how this works now... the % chance has no influence on this spell, right?

It's just a save to disbelieve (plus spell resistance), and if successful, the spell simply fails to do anything against that target?

Or would it be considered a "special attack" and thus have a 60% chance to hold the subject imprisoned, even if the save to disbelieve is successful?

Bye
Thanee

 

[Henrix]

My reading would be that the 60% has no influence. No effect if you disbelieve in it.

 

[Liquidsabre]

PHB p.277, Greater Shadow Conjuration: "...and nondamaging effects are 60% likely to work against nonbelievers."

Forcecage sure looks like a special/nondamaging effect to me. Should have a 60% chance to work against those who made their save to disbelieve. So a character would first have to interact with the bars before they could attempt a will save to disbelieve?

 

[Thanee]

Shadow Evocation has a different text as Shadow Conjuration.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Liquidsabre]

Oops my mistake, read Shadow Conjuration in the title instead of Shadow Evocation. Interestingly enough though, note the text from Shadow Evocation:

"If the disbelieved attack has a special effect other than damage, that effect is one-fifth as strong (if applicable) or only 20% likely to occur."

And the Greater version just bumps the number to "60% likely to occur".

 

[Lamoni]

Nondamaging effects have normal effects except against those who disbelieve them. Against disbelievers, they have no effect.

I believe the part that you quoted deals with effects that deal damage plus other effects. I can't think of any spells off the top of my head, but if it dealt damage plus stunned opponents, the damage would be 1/5 and the stun would be only occur 1/5 of the time on a successful save. If the spell does no damage, it is all or nothing.

 

[Thanee]

Like Sound Burst.

But shouldn't it be the way Liquidsabre was reading it, really?

It's one level higher than the equivalent Shadow Conjuration spell already, and those do have the chance to have a real effect (reduced appropriately).

You can shadow conjure a Wall of Stone just fine, but if you shadow evoke a Wall of Force, anyone can just pass through once they disbelieve the spell. :\

Bye
Thanee

 

[Plane Sailing]

A related question - do you need the expensive material component if casting a shadow version of the spell

 

[Thanee]

Nope.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Lamoni]

Like Sound Burst.

But shouldn't it be the way Liquidsabre was reading it, really?

It depends on what you are meaning by the word 'should'.
Should it be that way for balance? Or should it be that way because the spell states that it works that way?

I believe that it should be that way for balance. It doesn't seem right to me that weapons and objects pass through something that is 60% real as if it isn't there 100% of the time.

However, by the reading of the spell it sounds to me like any evocation spell that does not deal any damage is all or nothing (for each character). If it just has a non-damaging effect in addition to some damage, that follows the normal percent rules and the other effect is only X% likely to occur on a successful save.

Of course I could be wrong. The spell is worded quite poorly because without the last line about non-damaging spells I would have thought that all spells were subject to the "X% likely to occur"