Greatest American? (All Over on Page Eight)

[Darth K'Trava]

i still say my grandfather.

he came here as a cook on a ship during ww i

filipinos could only be cooks or engine room in the US Navy then.

despite the fact he was treated as a second/third class citizen. he made it.

he married my grandmother in detroit. another immigrant. and during the great depression provided for his family and his in-laws. all of them 8 siblings plus parents.

he lost an eye, his hearing, and several fingers working in a factory for years. and still raised my dad and his siblings.

he lived to the ripe old age of 104. he saw three centuries.

born june 15, 1897 .. in the Spanish owned Philippines.
died dec 26, 2001 in new jersey.

he taught me that you can be whatever you want no matter what people do or say otherwise.

I can agree with you there, diaglo. Your grandfather had seen/heard alot during his long, productive life.

Frankly, to be a bit of a generalist, I think the "Greatest American" isn't just one person in particular. It's to all those who have served this great country of ours and lost their lives in doing so. And also to those who served but were able to come home. They should get that highest honor over any single person. Because it's those people who made this country what it is today.

 

[ragboy]

The History Channel had a good be on him and the man was amazing. The Lightling Rod, saved thousand of lifes AND allowed building over three stories to become common!

And it was 'open-source' from the beginning, IIRC.

 

[ragboy]

i still say my grandfather.

he came here as a cook on a ship during ww i

filipinos could only be cooks or engine room in the US Navy then.

despite the fact he was treated as a second/third class citizen. he made it.

he married my grandmother in detroit. another immigrant. and during the great depression provided for his family and his in-laws. all of them 8 siblings plus parents.

he lost an eye, his hearing, and several fingers working in a factory for years. and still raised my dad and his siblings.

he lived to the ripe old age of 104. he saw three centuries.

born june 15, 1897 .. in the Spanish owned Philippines.
died dec 26, 2001 in new jersey.

he taught me that you can be whatever you want no matter what people do or say otherwise.

Great American! These are the types that should be on the list. The ones that did the working and fighting and dying. Not those that took the credit for it.

I would vote my grandfather, as well, if he were on there... He left home at the age of 12 to work for his family (admittedly, he only went from Gordon, TX to Ft. Worth, but it's a long way for a 12 year old). Worked heavy construction and hopped a train back and forth. Joined the CCCC camps and built every highway, lake, and state park in North, East and South Texas. *Then* worked 30 years at a factory, and retired a semi-wealthy man. Of course, I'd have to have my grandmother on there, as well, but they come as a pair...

 

[David Howery]

ok, this site is about the last board I would expect to have a running multi-page arguement over the causes of the ACW. I've seen quite a few of them over at alternatehistory.com, but here? a site dedicated towards fantasy and sci fi in all it's aspects? Sheesh...

 

[David Howery]

the War of Northern Aggression as it was taught in school

by the side that lost....

 

[Brother Shatterstone]

ok, this site is about the last board I would expect to have a running multi-page arguement over the causes of the ACW. I've seen quite a few of them over at alternatehistory.com, but here? a site dedicated towards fantasy and sci fi in all it's aspects? Sheesh...

An epic struggle is an epic struggle. To be honest once you think about it the surprise should be minimal. The fantasy novels often have parallels to the ACW plus the ACW is often draws people from all walks of life… It’s just a very compelling subject for many and its history that is still relevant to today’s world.

 

[wingsandsword]

ok, this site is about the last board I would expect to have a running multi-page arguement over the causes of the ACW. I've seen quite a few of them over at alternatehistory.com, but here? a site dedicated towards fantasy and sci fi in all it's aspects? Sheesh...

Well, the funny thing about roleplaying games is that they can cross just about any lines of history or fantasy.

A d20 Modern/Past game set in the Civil War could be quite the campaign, with lots of battles for the tactically minded player, a battle of good and evil (from one perspective it's slavery vs. freedom), strange events you'd from an RPG (the Battle of the Crater), big historic names (big name NPC's for the setting), and a setting that most players are fairly familiar with. Deadlands was an RPG working on an alternate history based on the idea that magical events disrupted the outcome of the Civil War. People spend a lot of time and money reenacting the war, and that's a relative of roleplaying games (cousins that don't meet often, but cousins still).

 

[Elf Witch]

An epic struggle is an epic struggle. To be honest once you think about it the surprise should be minimal. The fantasy novels often have parallels to the ACW plus the ACW is often draws people from all walks of life… It’s just a very compelling subject for many and its history that is still relevant to today’s world.

This is so true and it is sort of happening in the game I play in which is set in Kalamar. Right now my character is a moral dilema. She is loyal to her country and she swore an oath to her King. Who is also family. But more and more things are making her come to the realization that her King is evil and she may have to choose to go against him which means going against warriors who are her friends and family.

I have often compared her plight to what the west point trained leaders had to face when they had to choose what side to fight on in the civil war.

 

[Elf Witch]

Probably makes me glad, from some people's POV, is that I'm not a true "southerner". Sure I live here, my family's here but I wasn't BORN here...

Slavery has been around probably nearly as long as mankind has been here... The Romans were probably one of the bigger, if not the biggest, bunch of slaveholders in history. They enslaved anyone who was 1) not a Roman Citizen or 2) one of the conquered "barbaric" tribes they encountered. It wasn't racial to them. Just conquerer vs. conquered. Because most of their slaves were of the same race as they, with a smattering of Moors (and other Africans) thrown in for "good measure". But the majority were white like they were. Serfs had a bit more freedom than a slave did. They had a piece of their lord's lands that they worked and gave a portion of their crops as payment to the lord for the land they were granted the use of.



That's true. You have to be objective towards history as the people of the varying time periods had different views of things than we do today. Slavery is a prime example. The average Southerner before the Civil War accepted slavery as a part of southern life. It has been there and, if it hadn't been for a war, probably would STILL be there. Both the laws and religion seemed to "support" the idea of slavery from the viewpoint of those who were there at the time.



Only from the point of view of modern man. We think they're a bunch of bigots but they didn't think so at the time.... it was "normal" for them to think that having slaves was ok and chasing Indians out of their ancestral lands was ok.



The war woulda been over alot sooner had the southerners put down their pride and accepted Lincoln's offer of surrender and the allowance back into the Union. But they wouldn't give that up so that made the war drag on for about another 2 years longer than it should have.



I can agree there. The settlers were quite brave to travel to a distant, strange land to struggle to live there despite lots of hardships from both the land and unfriendly Indians who didn't want "those palefaces" in their ancestral lands, taking them over from them.

I dson't think it was pride at that point. I think it was desperation that kept them fighting. Some vain hope that they might be able to turn it around and actually win.

Of course they did not view themselves as bigots or what they were doing as evil. They felt that the black man was not equal and there was debates that they did not have souls and were closer to animals than men. And they considered the indians nothing more than savages who did not have the same rights as they did as god fearing folk.

 

[David Howery]

An epic struggle is an epic struggle. To be honest once you think about it the surprise should be minimal. The fantasy novels often have parallels to the ACW plus the ACW is often draws people from all walks of life… It’s just a very compelling subject for many and its history that is still relevant to today’s world.

I agree. It's just that you don't see many multi-page historical discussions on this site. Now, if you were talking about an RPG based on the ACW, I'd understand it...
Actually, this argument has been pretty tame so far. On AH.com, there have been some nasty ones that have gotten people kicked. When you get a bunch of history buffs together, you inevitably get a few who think the world would be a better place if the south had won the war. And then there's the whole slavery thing... the ACW can get people's blood boiling like few other subjects...