Greedy Players and the Lust for Treasure!

[HealingAura]

Hello, I am a DM for a 4 players group with my friends and I am having some troubles in my campaign. We are only at our fourth session and it is the first time we play 4th edition, and also my first time as a DM in D&D (I’m usually a player). I have some questions for you and I am sure some of you have already encountered such problems, so I would really appreciate your advice:

1. How do you deal with player characters taking too much time dividing their treasure?
Just for example, one time when the characters found a magical item and 360 GP it took them half an hour to divide that treasure and it just feels like wasting time to me.

2. How do you deal with player characters stealing from each other?
Let’s say the ranger found a magical dagger and doesn't want to give it to the rogue, and then the latter steals it from him, do you tell the ranger?

3. How do you deal with player characters killing each other over treasure?
When the two players actually started to roll initiative I reminded them that they risk dying, but I couldn't stop them from killing each other's character. We as players just HATE it that when a character dies you have to make a new character, but they are only level 2 (the one who died was level 1) and they neither know how to cast Resurrect Dead, nor do they know someone powerful enough to use it. Nevertheless, even if the player with the dead character creates a new one, I will still be having the same problem with player characters which are willing to kill each other over treasure.

By the way, in case you wondered allegedly none of the players play an Evil character.

I have one more question concerning the rules:

If one character survived the combat while the other characters are at negative HP, and that character wants to loot the room alone, do the other players still have to roll Death Saving Throws? What if they want to roll just in case they got a 20 before he takes all the loot? (It happened!)

 

[Jhulae]

Um.. Huh.

I'm not sure D&D is really the right game for this type of group, in all honesty. I think they'd be much more suited for Paranoia.

 

[Paul Strack]

That sounds ... pretty awful, actually. Your problems are not unique. I've seen several groups that are new to the game get obsessed with treasure (though I admit, its been a very long time since I've personally witnessed those kinds of issues).

The way I address these kinds of issue is that I simply don't give out treasure at all. Instead, I give each PC a new "Level + 1" magic item every time they advance to a new level. Mainly I do this to avoid dealing with treasure bookkeeping, but it could solve your problem as well.

This way, all PC advancement comes from XP, which the players can't steal from each other. Therefore, only cooperation with other party members is rewarded. "Stealing" from each other is useless.

If you are interested, I can post my full set of house rules on playing 4E D&D without gold.

EDIT: I found my post on with my gold-free house rules (boy I wish these forums had a search option):

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showpost.php?p=4418015&postcount=2

 

[Kegas76]

LOL, that is kind of awesome... how old is everyone?

I guess I'm lucky, my party(and DM) are all from the same guild in WoW and most have officer experience. So when it comes to treasure, money gets split even and items go to those that would get the most use from it or biggest upgrade.

Frankly if they want to kill each other let them, as long as there is no ill will carried out of game. When they get back to town if they revisit a shop or tavern make sure the locals notice the lack of a party member and force them to pass a difficult skill challenge if they want to lie about what happened. If it comes out that they spilled each other's blood then let it sour the reactions of the townsfolk. Make them understand there are repercussions for these types of acts other than just needing to make a new character.

 

[HealingAura]

Jhulae, thanks for the offer. We never tried any other RPG other than D&D (we used to play AD&D). Though I am kind of eager to play 4th edition since it's my first time I DM and I already bought the books.

LOL, that is kind of awesome... how old is everyone?

We are all 21 years old.

Paul Strack, that is actually very helpful! I noticed that giving Gold isn't as rewarding as giving magic items so I think I'd imbrace this rule.

 

[Drakhar]

What I've done with my group that I'm running through KoTS, is tell them to pool all the gold until the end of the adventure, magic items are based on a need before greed approach, and well my players haven't come to the wanting to kill each other stage yet. I have made sure however that players only receive probably one item per level with the odd (wo)man out, which will lead to at the end the players with the least amount of magic items getting more gold then the ones with more, balancing the party out hopefully.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Sounds like your players are selfish jerks. Well, at least one of them is.

Characters who engage in such behaviour are unaligned at best. Not that it really matters.

If you're fine running a game of greedy backstabbing mercenary bastards, then things aren't really a problem. Just make sure the entire group know that you're allowing stuff like that, or you might find that one character runs amok and ruins the fun of the others. Make sure that players don't bring in "the brother of the guy who was just murdered" revenge characters. Also make sure that you're fair in dispensing information. It only makes sense that someone would notice their posessions are missing at the beginning or end of the adventuring day, or when they go to use them. It also makes sense that if, say, the rogue draws the dagger in front of the ranger, that the ranger will recognise it.

If you're totally not interested, make sure your players know the fact and institute a treasure division system of equal cash for everyone, plus magic items going to the character they're most effective for. Which isn't a ranger getting a magic dagger (barring a very specific breed of ranger).

 

[Byronic]

Is it the PC's that are greedy, the Players themselves or both?

1) I would have started at them in silence for 2 min and then blink for emphasis. Then I would tell them in a droll voice that 360 divided by 4 is 90. And if it's the players that are the greedy ones I would remind them that they just wasted half an hour of treasure finding.

Or at least have them mutually decide on a method beforehand.

2)Wow.. thats inefficient, Rangers don't usually use daggers. I would allow it if it was in character and wasn't boring all the other players.

3) Remind them that if they must fight over the treasure that they CAN knock the other person unconscious in 4e with no extra trouble. The arrow to the head is somewhat unnecessary.

That's if they aren't completely oblivious that they're really annoying the other person by making him create a new character.

I would suggest simply running an evil game. You're players wouldn't have to change their behaviour one bit. Of course there are heroes and other dangers that would love to take advantage of an inefficient party.

 

[Mirtek]

I have one more question concerning the rules:

If one character survived the combat while the other characters are at negative HP, and that character wants to loot the room alone, do the other players still have to roll Death Saving Throws? What if they want to roll just in case they got a 20 before he takes all the loot? (It happened!)

Unless the surviving character takes the time to stabilze them before starting to loot the room they have to continue rolling their death saving throws and are most likely going to die from it

 

[kuonji]

1. How do you deal with player characters taking too much time dividing their treasure?
Just for example, one time when the characters found a magical item and 360 GP it took them half an hour to divide that treasure and it just feels like wasting time to me.

You might try sitting down with your players before the next session and discuss how they want to divide up treasure. A couple points to touch on might include where magic items go and an inclusion of a party fund (a generic cash pile used to buy stuff like potions, ritual materials, etc)

2. How do you deal with player characters stealing from each other?
Let’s say the ranger found a magical dagger and doesn't want to give it to the rogue, and then the latter steals it from him, do you tell the ranger?

Remind them that they are a team and selfish crap like this isn't going to be very helpful. Alternatively, get new players.

3. How do you deal with player characters killing each other over treasure?
When the two players actually started to roll initiative I reminded them that they risk dying, but I couldn't stop them from killing each other's character. We as players just HATE it that when a character dies you have to make a new character, but they are only level 2 (the one who died was level 1) and they neither know how to cast Resurrect Dead, nor do they know someone powerful enough to use it. Nevertheless, even if the player with the dead character creates a new one, I will still be having the same problem with player characters which are willing to kill each other over treasure.

Get new players. Alternatively, ask them what kind of game they want to play, one in which they work together to accomplish goals or one in which they are constantly bickering and fighting over minor issues and have to worry about their companions murdering them in their sleep.

If one character survived the combat while the other characters are at negative HP, and that character wants to loot the room alone, do the other players still have to roll Death Saving Throws? What if they want to roll just in case they got a 20 before he takes all the loot? (It happened!)

What if your still alive player wasn't a jerk? But to answer the question, I suppose the encounter is still technically going on since characters are down and dying which would mean that saving throws still apply.