Green Ronin not signing GSL (Forked Thread: Doing the GSL. Who?)

[Desdichado]

Well, it's a bit of an ABAB experiment then.

I'm not sure what you mean by ABAB, but I'm going to assume that you mispelled ABBA and that the correct soundtrack for 4e games now includes a mandatory playing of "Dancing Queen."

 

[Desdichado]

Last 2 or 3 years, eh? I wonder how much of this is due too:
1) Aftershocks of the 3.5 transition.
2) Caution at buying new products amidst increasing rumors of 4e.

Good point. We have to be very careful assigning causality to a single factor when plenty of other things were going on in the marketplace, and I think those two were much bigger than folks at WotC give them credit for being.

 

[Alzrius]

Huh?

If it's not listed in the SRD, then that opens the door wider to making your own.

But as Lizard pointed out-- just name it something different. I was surprised he missed "dark elves" but there you go.

Wider? How does it open the door wider? If it was at least in the SRD, you could use the word, and altered stat blocks for them (at least in terms of the alterations to it). Without it being there, you can't do that at all. That seems like the door is closed, not open wider.

There's something to be said for the renaming element, I suppose. But that doesn't really seem to make things much better, in terms of the original worry regarding third-party products. Now instead of several books about drow, you've got books about "cave elves" "spider elves" "reverse-albino elves" "dark elves" "shadow elves" and many others, none of which are compatible.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Wider? How does it open the door wider? If it was at least in the SRD, you could use the word, and altered stat blocks for them (at least in terms of the alterations to it). Without it being there, you can't do that at all. That seems like the door is closed, not open wider.

Are you suggesting that products using the GSL can only use words appearing in the SRD?

That's going to make forming coherent sentences a bit of a trick.

Terms appearing in the SRD can be used but not altered.

Terms not appearing in the SRD are free to be defined by the creator (at least until such time as WotC adds them to the SRD, at which point you may have to destroy your product).

At least, that's my recollection. I haven't read the GSL since the day it came out and my brain exploded.

 

[Alzrius]

Are you suggesting that products using the GSL can only use words appearing in the SRD?

My understanding is that part of the GSL also forbids you from using monsters - including the names - that appear in the Core Rulebooks but not the SRD (I believe that's part of "not redefining terms"). For example, no product that uses the GSL could have a "succubus" in any way, since that's be redefining the MM succubus.

 

[The Little Raven]

Huh?

If it's not listed in the SRD, then that opens the door wider to making your own.

But as Lizard pointed out-- just name it something different. I was surprised he missed "dark elves" but there you go.

Simply copying the drow and slapping a new label on them, or using drow in defiance of the fact that they are not in the SRD will probably be cause of revocation of the GSL for that publisher.

 

[Vocenoctum]

The problem wasn't reinventing the wheel, it was usually that third party guys were preinventing the wheel.

They weren't redundent concepts for a book... until WotC came in and stepped on their toes.

I think a lot of this disregards the whole "sell most of your books in 30 days" aspect. The main one that "got screwed" by a WotC book that I can think of is the arctic book (frost & fur? I forget) that came out when WotC did theirs.

Even then, the odds of a large, expensive book about chilly weather doesn't seem like a strong seller. It got great reviews, and I think the folks that would have bought it, still bought it for the most part, but that again dabbles in alternate history, so who can tell.

The good part about adventures in this market, is that someone can look at the plot synopsis and buy it or not based on that. With a splatbook, you may "have enough" or not want to chance buying from 3pp that your DM doesn't know.

The bad thing about adventures, which WotC never acknowledged really but was mentioned by 3pp, was Dungeon. 3-4 adventures a month for less than the price of one 3pp adventure. That means the 3pp adventure had to have a draw.

 

[Scribble]

Honestly, I don't think that WoTC care one way or the other.

I agree. I doubt they care much at all if no one signs the GSL.

Terms not appearing in the SRD are free to be defined by the creator (at least until such time as WotC adds them to the SRD, at which point you may have to destroy your product).

Thats one of the things I hope WoTC answers soon... It says you can't redefine anything they've defined... But if you've already defined it, and then they come up with the new "official" defenition, is yours now redefining that official defenition? Or is it just offlimits to being redefined further (because the word is now in the SRD and allowed to be used by others.)

I kind of get the feeling it might be the latter, especially since they mention that you can't sue them if they come out with a product with stuff like yours in it.

But maybe that's just wishfull thinking on my part.

 

[Vocenoctum]

Thats one of the things I hope WoTC answers soon... It says you can't redefine anything they've defined... But if you've already defined it, and then they come up with the new "official" defenition, is yours now redefining that official defenition? Or is it just offlimits to being redefined further (because the word is now in the SRD and allowed to be used by others.)

I'm of a mind that they meant the original SRD for 4e, not "anything we may ever make", but at the same time that's one of the core issues with the GSL vs the OGL.
1) They can redefine it at will, so you are subject to the will of the then current GSL. If they say "oh, that only applies to the three core books", that's fine, but later on they may change their minds when they change their staff...

For me, the other big thing:
2) I find the GSL to be a regular legal document drafted by lawyers with obtuse writing styles that lend themselves to furthering the legal profession by requiring lawyers...
The OGL was a VERY simple thing, there may have been a little confusion here or there, but overall comparing the two, the GSL has the stink of Corporate Lawyers, the OGL has a more inviting feel to it.


But again, the simple matter is:
Jade Ronin, Inc (a wholly owned subsidiary of Green Ronin) makes 4e products, some of which license GR's properties of Freeport, all of which are 4e only.

Games For The Goodman, makes their line of adventures, Classic Dungeon Crawls. It is made only for 4e, and no version of the same adventure is made under the OGL...

The limitations are:
1) you can't share product
2) WotC might get pissy and revoke your GSL (or not approve it in the first place)

Sure the corporate shuffle might cost a little more, but it's negligible.

 

[Banshee16]

I'm not sure what you mean by ABAB, but I'm going to assume that you mispelled ABBA and that the correct soundtrack for 4e games now includes a mandatory playing of "Dancing Queen."

ABAB is a format for conducting experiments in psychology (and, I assume, other sciences).

Basically, A is your baseline condition. You apply the experimental condition (B), and measure to see if you can detect a change. At that point, you can't be sure if your change (if you detected one) was because of the experimental condition you introduced, or some other, unrelated factor you might not be aware of.

So, you switch back to A, your baseline, and see whether your measurements return to the baseline levels, like before you had experimental condition B. Finally, you reinstitute your experimental condition (B), and measure to see if you replicate the change in your results.

If your results are modified in a similar manner in both B conditions, and the two A baselines are similar to each other, then it's more likely that your experimental condition (B) is actually related to the changes you're measuring.

P.S. and yes, I'm assuming that your post was sarcastic

Banshee