D&D 4E Greyhawk 4e: Back to the Beginning...

[The Grumpy Celt]

What is a good fan website for someone unfamiliar with Grayhawk?

 

[Klaus]

What is a good fan website for someone unfamiliar with Grayhawk?

Canonfire: Canonfire!

 

[S'mon]

To elaborate on what Klaus stated in his post, From the Ashes was a massive, top-down change that radically altered the setting for the worse, and trashed many traits that fans had come to associate with the setting.

For one thing, Greyhawk had never really been "advanced" outside of the official modules published by TSR. The tendency that had developed was that these modules constituted the "metaplot", and that individual DMs and players played these modules out and incorporated the changes into their own individual campaigns as they saw fit. Gaming groups could use or ignore them as they pleased. Players had a chance to prevent certain catastrophic events from happening.

All that changed with From the Ashes...

This is a good analysis, which fits my reaction. It can be argued that Gygax took Greyhawk in a similar direction in his Gord the Rogue novels, but then, Gygax deliberately trashed the setting.

Personally I don't think metaplot/timeline advances by the publisher have worked well in any RPG setting. From Cyberpunk to Traveller to Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk, there seems to be a strong inbuilt tendency towards entropy and setting-decay. Hmmm...

 

[Ahnirades]

As an old-time fan of the setting I love the idea, and hope there's at least a shred of truth to the rumor.

I'd also love to see something similar done with Blackmoor. I think the non-trad elements of 4E would be better accomodated by a setting more gonzo in it's scope.

 

[AFGNCAAP]

Well, if this is how a 4e Greyhawk will manifest, then, IMO, I think it's a good idea, esp. if the mantra for published settings is 2 books (campaign guide, player's guide), and perhaps modules, with online articles/support otherwise. Tossing out the metaplot of past editions isn't a bad thing in this case, IMO. (Then again, the metaplot of FR drove me away from that setting.)

Then again, I'm curious as to how Dragonlance's 4e incarnation will come about. I wonder if it'll be reinvented along the lines of FR, esp. with it's massive canon due to the novels & whatnot. As it is, it's already had severe shake-ups due to it's stint with the SAGA card system. I have to wonder if it may face a significant time-jump much as FR did, in order to have a "clean" setting for RPG campaigns (without the Sword of Damocles-like threat of canon looming over the setting with each new novel written).

I think that the (relative) lack of novels & the like set in Greyhawk makes it much more plausible to just rollback the setting to an earlier era, esp. when compared to the sheer # of canon-approved novels & stories written about FR and DL.

Now, as Henry mentioned, there's 2 setting competition finalist settings that are available for use. Then again, wasn't some material from those 2 settings used in some degree for Eberron? I thought that this was mentioned at some point (and, if so, it could be why those settings weren't developed: some core concepts of them could have already been incorporated into Eberron).

 

[JohnRTroy]

This is a good analysis, which fits my reaction. It can be argued that Gygax took Greyhawk in a similar direction in his Gord the Rogue novels, but then, Gygax deliberately trashed the setting.

I think this is patently false. Greyhawk wasn't trashed at all--in fact GTR had the most pure Greyhawk. There were only two things different. 1) Gygax was forced not to use proper names of any country or personage from TSR not specifically referenced in the TSR published books and 2) his ending was downbeat and ended with the destruction of the Greyhawk world.

From what I've seen, his work followed the original campaign setting very clearly, with more definitions than he had published in the past.

Personally, I'm curious why settings have to be rebooted. A lot of times, it doesn't work. Why not instead of constantly reinventing old properties, just leave things as they are, and create some new stuff instead of reinventing the wheel. I think some settings are more tied to D&D history and should be left as is, as part of that time.

 

[S'mon]

I think this is patently false. Greyhawk wasn't trashed at all... ...his ending was downbeat and ended with the destruction of the Greyhawk world.

Clearly you have a different definition of 'trashed' than I do. I meant 'destroyed'.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Personally, I'm curious why settings have to be rebooted. A lot of times, it doesn't work. Why not instead of constantly reinventing old properties, just leave things as they are, and create some new stuff instead of reinventing the wheel. I think some settings are more tied to D&D history and should be left as is, as part of that time.

Cynically, because it doesn't sell more books. There needs to be some "new and improved" to sell more "new and improved" books.

But I agree with you -- I'd prefer settings that are plublished statically so they can be advanced by the DM and his group's campaign in any direction. Greyhawk and Mystara especially so, but I'd like to see FR roll back to 1357 DR, too.

 

[Truth Seeker]

I thought comics were bad enough, with this trick. Now with Greyhawk???

Please...no.

 

[cougent]

Would I get this if it comes to pass? I can give it a definite MAYBE.

First I would have to decide to move to 4E, which will probably only happen with a new setting... and there is the rub. Points of Light does not work for me. Spellplagued Forgotten Realms does not work for me. Eberron does not work for me now and I doubt it will post 4E makeover. Dragonlance is very much a wait and see what they do this time setting. EarthDawn 4E is a potential contender, as is anything else RedBrick might do (They have announced nothing definitive other than ED, but have mentioned "D&D 4E products" as well). DA Blackmoor is also on my to be considered list as well. Greyhawk 4E is only the 3rd possible setting that I would even consider making the move to at this moment in time.