GREYHAWK: history of psionics started there?

Emirikol · Dec 8, 2004

For you Greyhawkers, I was wondering about the history of psionics in Greyhawk. Anybody know much about it? Surely Gary had them in his Greyhawk campaign, since he wrote the psionics rules in 1979 and shoved them in the back of the PhB right?

What do we know? Is there Canon (or non-canon) wording somewhere about it?

jh

Virel · Dec 8, 2004

EGG's Greyhawk started before the psionic rules were introducted, I think. EGG didn't really want to include the psionic rules as written in the PHB but Brian Blume insisted should be in the PHB. So EGG was persuaded to include them as they are.

One of the older supplaments before the PHB may have had psionics in it, I can't recall and I have only a few materials before 1st ed AD&D.

I have a soft spot for the old 1st ed AD&D psionic rules as my group was able to use them without problems but then most of us were serious wargames that like rules!

I still run a 1st AD&D campaign, it's the one I started back in 1980. One character has psionics and we still use the old PBH rules for them.

rogueattorney · Dec 8, 2004

The original psionic rules were in the Eldritch Wizardry Supplement to OD&D from 1976. According to Steve Marsh (editor of the Blackmoor Supplement, co-editor of the 1981 Expert set, among other Aulde Schoole TSR projects) the psionic powers in EW were originally all supposed go to one class, the Mystic, and the psionic attacks were to go to another. For some reason, rather than making the new classes, they split up the powers into the psionic system available to multiple character classes. (Check out this DF thread on the OD&D Monk and the BECM Mystic which discusses this and other cool topics: http://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=108225&highlight=#108225 )

I've read that the Gary Gygax was not a big fan of the psionic system and wasn't its creator. However, Brian Blume (co-owner of TSR at the time) was a big fan. It was Blume who insisted that Gygax insert the revised psionic system in the AD&D PHB in 1977. I wish I had a quote I could reference for you on this one. Maybe we could ask on G.G.'s Q&A thread. (Gygax has also stated that some of the other oft criticized portions of 1e were inserted against his better judgment, among these weapons v. AC and the unarmed combat rules.)

Anyway, the point is that I don't think that psionics were a big part of Gygax's original Greyhawk campaign. The only psionic character I can think of off the top of my head in any of Gygax's Greyhawk products is the hermit in S4 Tsojcanth from 1982.

R.A.

Quasqueton · Dec 8, 2004

Anyone else noticed that everything really bad about the AD&D rules were never EGG's doing? Someone else either talked him into or forced him to include them.

Quasqueton

johnnype · Dec 8, 2004

I'll let others talk about the origins of psionics as I'm no expert. What I do know is that Greyhawk has one god in it's pantheon that is the focus of the much maligned ability: Xan Yae. Xan Yae is a female, neutral, Baklunish god whose portfolio includes twilight, shadows and stealth. You can find her write-up in the original boxed set and looking at her stats she was the only one to fully max out her power points. She also had levels of monk and possibly thief IIRC.

rogueattorney · Dec 8, 2004

Quasqueton said:
Anyone else noticed that everything really bad about the AD&D rules were never EGG's doing? Someone else either talked him into or forced him to include them.

I've seen, on this board and others, people criticize levels, classes, hit points, armor class, level limits, racial class restrictions, Vancian magic, the entire combat system, alignment, alignment languages, and pretty much the entire contents of the 1e Unearthed Arcana. I'm pretty sure Gygax takes full credit for those.

Another thing I forgot to note about the origins of psioncs. The psionic attack system was derived from the original write-up of the Mind Flayer, which appeared in one of the early issues of the Strategic Review (possibly the first one) in 1975. I don't know who wrote that article, but it wasn't Gary Gygax.

R.A.

howandwhy99 · Dec 9, 2004

The Strategic Review 1 - 1

rogueattorney said:
The psionic attack system was derived from the original write-up of the Mind Flayer, which appeared in one of the early issues of the Strategic Review (possibly the first one) in 1975. I don't know who wrote that article, but it wasn't Gary Gygax.

Very few of the articles in the old Strategic Review were attributed to their authors. Your best bet is the Q&A thread.

(from TSR 1 -1)
The Mind Flayer:
Number Appearing 1-4
Armor Class 5
Move 12"
Hit Dice 8+3
% in Lair 50%
Treasure F
Magical Resistance 90%

This is a super-intelligent, man-shaped creature with four tentacles by its mouth which it uses to strike its prey. If a tentacle hits it will then penetrate to the brain, draw it forth, and the monster will devour it. It will take one to four turns for the tentacle to reach the brain, at which time the victim is dead. A Mind Flayer will I flee if an encounter is going against it.[sic] Ther major weapon, however, is the Mind Blast, a wave PSI force with a 6" directional range and a radius of 5'. All within the radius must save as indicated or will suffer the results shown:

(and a multi-columned table follows that would be a real pain to try here).

Emirikol · Dec 9, 2004

I just took a look through the old boxed set and you're right. Xan Yae is the only one with any kind of focus, although most of the gods have pretty dramatic listings for psionic powers.

S4-Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth lists the old Coot..yes. He has the powers of mass domination "at 19th level" or something. The really interesting thing is that he has no name. He's just the old coot.

Very interesting indeed!

jh

grodog · Dec 9, 2004

Gygax wrote the Mind Flayer, and all of the new monsters published in SR.

Anthelios · Dec 9, 2004

Here is the start of the History of Greyhawk, as recorded by the Oreth journal and taken from the Scarlet Brotherhood book and other sources.

http://www.tc.umn.edu/~monax002/gh/ghhistory.html

In the Baklunish section "1224 BH Leery of the "mages" in the south, a group of worshippers of Xan Yae, began developing "mental disciplines" in conjunction with their clerical powers. (4080 SD/-1428 CY) "

It makes other mentions of Xan Tae and their followers. Which would be the "in-character" creation of Psionics.

Suel section "4710 SD The minor temples of Tharizdun, hidden in the mountains immediately west of the Vesve starts practicing a heretofore unknown discipline which combines physical regimen with mental powers. It is rumored that these disciplines were torn from the mind of a captured Bakluni priest... (-806 CY) "

Hope that helps.