Greyhawk Oddities

[Grover Cleaveland]

St. Ceril the Relentless - LN quasideity of order, law, and opposition to chaos.

According to a very old Dragon magazine, St. Ceril was the patron saint of those who hunt the undead. But it seems that part of his sphere of influence has been stripped away. Humph.

Dragon #67, you mean. You're confusing St. Ceril, the hunter of slaadi, with St. Bane, the hunter of undead. I added the info on the saints (except Carmichael, Cuthbert, and Benedor) directly from that article, so I'm sure about this.

Saints Ceril, Bane, Kargoth, and Eleador are equivalent to quasideities, so they'd be rank 0 gods. St. Bane was supposed to be more powerful than the others, so he might be rank 1.

 

[WizarDru]

Dragon #67, you mean. You're confusing St. Ceril, the hunter of slaadi, with St. Bane, the hunter of undead. I added the info on the saints (except Carmichael, Cuthbert, and Benedor) directly from that article, so I'm sure about this.

Saints Ceril, Bane, Kargoth, and Eleador are equivalent to quasideities, so they'd be rank 0 gods. St. Bane was supposed to be more powerful than the others, so he might be rank 1.

Kargoth appeared in one of the Dragon-based LGJ articles a little while back. He was represented then, irrc, as a high-level blackguard with the Death Knight template. While he was quite powerful and very dangerous, he was not represented at hero-god status of DR 0. I don't recall if this was before or after D&Dg, though, so that may be part of the reason.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Yeah, that's one of the problems with a game system with more than one system. Over time heirarchies look... odd as power changes happen.

I remember one time when there was only one undead dragon, and he didn't serve no cult. (Ah, White Plume Mountain, still inspiring terror in PCs...)

It'd be nice to see a book like Primal Order come out for the d20 system that focused on acquiring godly power and the various ranks that can be had within it. saints, hero-deities, quasi-deities, demi-gods, half-gods, godlings, etc...

 

[Joshua Randall]

Dragon #67, you mean. You're confusing St. Ceril, the hunter of slaadi, with St. Bane, the hunter of undead.

Yup. And I feel like a royal idiot after scrolling back up to your list to see St. Bane mere inches from St. Ceril. Duh....

So here's a question -- any relation between St. Bane of Greyhawk and Bane of Faerun? Inquiring minds want to know.

 

[francisca]

the LGG is not canon to some of us.

teh winnar!

Canon ended at the 83 boxed set for me. The rest is up to me and players to fill in.

Not that there hasn't been some good stuff put out there in the last 22 years, (and I certainly am not too proud to steal) but I'm firmly in the "canon-schmanon" crowd. There is way more heat than light to be found in discussion of what is and isn't canon.

 

[JoeGKushner]

teh winnar!

Canon ended at the 83 boxed set for me. The rest is up to me and players to fill in.

Not that there hasn't been some good stuff put out there in the last 22 years, (and I certainly am not too proud to steal) but I'm firmly in the "canon-schmanon" crowd. Way more heat than light to found in discussion of what is and isn't canon.

But why does "canon" matter? I mean, I'm not hip or knowledgable as to what's supposed to be actual canon, but is it an issue because side X leaves the timeline at point Y and side B takes it all the way to notch A?

 

[francisca]

But why does "canon" matter? I mean, I'm not hip or knowledgable as to what's supposed to be actual canon, but is it an issue because side X leaves the timeline at point Y and side B takes it all the way to notch A?

That's my point. It doesn't matter to me one bit. At my table, canon is what I say it is. It's never been an issue for me whether or not the Greyhawk Wars happened, or if Iuz got killed by Lolth, right after the fire sale at the ToEE......whatever.

For the real nitty-gritty, go have a look at the Greytalk archives. There is some real snarkiness going. And to answer your last question, I really don't know what the hell some people's problems are.

 

[Grover Cleaveland]

A better question would be WHY did he do it...although I gather from various sources that it was part of his process of ascension. Funny that they didn't really seek retribution afterwards.

Maybe they did! But Zagyg has Boccob's protection, and Celestian's, and he's wily and slippery and hard to catch, and maybe there's a reason he never stays in the same place for too long.

I'm the last person to insist on adherence to canon (if such a thing even exists in the absence of a company interested in continuity), but when answering questions, the canonical answer may be more useful than a simple "make it up yourself," which goes without saying.

Rob Kuntz's demigod list is hard to reconcile with even the 1983 boxed set, which, for example, said that Zagyg and Celestian were on good terms (after being imprisoned for 65 years?), and clearly defined what a demigod was and which deities merited the title.

Some possible lists:

- Iuz, Vecna, Wastri, Stratis, Merikka, St. Benedor, Rudd, Shevarash, Zuoken
- Iuz, Stalker, Glasya, Wastri, Merikka, Stillsong, Ye'Cind, Rudd, Zuoken
- Iuz, an avatar of Ralishaz, a proxy of Trithereon, an avatar of Erythnul, an avatar of Olidammara, an avatar of Heironeous, a proxy of Celestian, an avatar of Hextor, and an avatar of Obad-Hai
- Imix, Ben-Hadar, Chan, Cryonax, Ogremoch, Olhydra, Sunnis, Yan-C-Bin, Zaaman Rul
- Elminster, the Seven Sisters, Drizzt Do'Urden

 

[Grover Cleaveland]

So here's a question -- any relation between St. Bane of Greyhawk and Bane of Faerun? Inquiring minds want to know.

They're legally married in some states!

 

[francisca]

for example, said that Zagyg and Celestian were on good terms (after being imprisoned for 65 years?),

There is a joke there, somewhere...