D&D General Greyhawk: Thrommel

[haakon1]

So in Temple of Elemental Evil, it’s ambiguous about who kidnapped Prince Thrommel. Obvious would be Iuz, but mentions Iuz is angry at the Scarlet Brotherhood, the SB emerged the same year Thrommel went missing, and LGG mentions suspicious than the SB did it.

Canonfire doesn’t have an answer either.

Who done it?

 

[Shiroiken]

Upon my first reading the of the adventure, this seemed obvious that it was the Temple in retaliation. I know that Gary later officially claimed it was the Scarlet Brotherhood for Nyrond, but that makes absolutely no sense. If that were the case, it would have been a massive series of events that would place him in the ToEE.

 

[jasper]

It is up to the dm to decide. My bet is Jake from State Farm.

 

[Pauln6]

In Living Greyhawk he ends up fighting against Furyondy so I'd say stick with IUZ.

 

[smetzger]

He ends up in Return to the ToEE.
He has been turned into a Vampire and is serving Tharizdun who is masquerading as the Elder Elemental in order to gain freedom.

 

[haakon1]

He ends up in Return to the ToEE.
He has been turned into a Vampire and is serving Tharizdun who is masquerading as the Elder Elemental in order to gain freedom.

Which implies it was the Scarlet Brotherhood as they are associated with Tharizdun ... or sometimes not. Interesting ... Greyhawk is all wheels within wheels.

 

[Helldritch]

Iuz ordered the kidnapping. The Temple orchestrated it. But the infiltrators from Lolth caught him and placed him where he is in the temple. Probably as a lever to put the temple or Iuz into submission or as a bargaining chip.

OOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRR
It was the Scarlet Brotherhood that did it. They placed him there to frame the ToEE and Iuz if he ever get discovered. In the meanwhile, the destabilization of the region works in favor of the SB...

OOOOOOOORRRRRRR
It is Ivid IV in preparation for the Greyhawk wars. His associates tricked the SB to do it so that they thought they had the idea by themselves.

OOOOOORRRRR
It was Turok Mash who was already on the rise but was still hidden. He hid the prince in the temple without the temple knowing so that he could either make a quick buck on selling the location of the prince to his father/Iuz/ToEE/Lolth/SB or whatever.

Or
It was a gnome. It's always the fault a gnome at some point....

Edit: Damn the auto corrector...

 

[haakon1]

Thanks Helldritch! In my campaign, the whole sublevel with Thrommel was mostly abandoned. Shadow danger area is contained by magical lines & portals - if not, it seems to me the shadows would eat everything, not wait for someone to try to steal Serten’s shield. The Lab is too dangerous with the Roper, which can hibernate and wait. Ditto on the Museum with the Lurker Above. One stairway out is warded against passage by evil creature, the other locked with a permanent Ettin Trollmaster guarding it, who mostly has charge of other prisoners above the Prince sub level. So in general, the TOEE could be as unaware as the Good Guys are on what was hidden there, cloaked as it is by serious magic.

Let’s test Motive, Means, Opportunity.

Motive: Iuz for Emridy Fields & war aims; Lolth forces or SB for general chaos & power & getting the blame on Iuz if it fails.

Means: Possible for all 3

Opportunity: Iuz & Lolth both had pawns nearby.

But hey, what’s the deal with access to the warded secret chamber being behind the secret chapel of Pholtus. Why Pholtus? I don’t see an ability of Iuz, Lolth, or SB to control Pholtus forces, nor a real reason to specifically fake Pholtus. Of course, throwing people off the scent could be all it is.

From the video game, Countess Tillahi knew and told adventurers Thrommel is in the TOEE when she & Sir Juffer were rescued. It might make more sense if they had discovered what the drow/Lolth were up to being elves. Also makes if it was TOEE loose lipped turnkey, so the TOEE did know. No answers there.

Map evidence: The Prince is nearly directly accessible via Broken Tower bandits, Smigsmal & Falrinth area, and then troll/prison complex guarded by a single Ettin.

Makes sense to me that he was the prisoner of the Lolth faction — Lareth the Beautiful, Falrinth, Smigsmal, and their bandits - Moathouse & Broken Tower. Countess Tillahi knows Thrommel is somewhere either from secrets captured from the Vault of the Drow or Knights of Luna spying.

 

[Helldritch]

The fun with this is that you can't be sure 100%. So just about any assumption can be made logical. Even the silliest possibility isn't that silly. I'm sure that the gnomes did it.

 

[haakon1]

The fun with this is that you can't be sure 100%. So just about any assumption can be made logical. Even the silliest possibility isn't that silly. I'm sure that the gnomes did it.

So what you’re saying is Wonnilon did it? Remember that gnome?

in the video game, he’s a lone gnome adventurer who tells the PC’s a safe area to rest, which is incredibly helpful except it still gets wandering monsters, so it’s not safe. Hey, maybe Wonnilon isn’t actually helping!

in the original, he’s a prisoner in the Earth Temple on Level 1, just an opportunistic Fighter/Thief of Neutral alignment.

 

[Helldritch]

That's exactly the gnome I had in mind. I was wondering if anyone would catch about him. Nice job good sir! And in all the campaign I did with the ToEE, Wonnilon was always a charming pain in the *ss. He has always been more a nuisance than a helpful chap. Stealing a few things here and there, removing a bit of loot. Yep. told ya the gnome did it.

 

[haakon1]

In my campaigns ...

I was playing the computer game. The computer party freed Countess Tillahi, and was told about Thrommel. Elmo was in the party, and I know who he is, but there’s no option to “alert the authorIties”. Not the Tower, Jaroo, Otis, or Church. So I had Elmo leave the party - traveling to report it. And the computer party got TPK’d shortly afterward, trying the Broken Tower but notmbeing prepared for missile fire taking out the casters. And then computer hard drive also died soon after, so a true TPK!

But ...

My 20+ year old email campaign that was on downtime after many adventure, and is led by a Furyondian Fighter who was at the Warmaster College, a reward for his adventures. So they got the call for the secret rescue mission, and hooked up with Elmo. Elmo told them his old party were apparently dead or captured, being missing a month, and he suspected they got ambushed on their usual way in, but they had learned of another way in ... called the Broken Tower.

The PC’s bullied their way in - Fireball as a fine how-do-you-do - and won with some repairable damage. Long story short, they killed Smigsmal &Falrinth, found Golden Skull, found Thrommel and pulled him out.

Golden Skull has been studied by Veluna for about two months, so I am going to give them the mission to find the Elemental Gems - I figure the Church of Rao figured out what is needed (but not where they are precisely) and that it can destroy the TOEE. So that’s next. They also got the poem from an agent of Melf, who IMC is Thrommel’s old adventure buddy (Heartstone theory of Melf, Thrommel, and Warduke).

So should I throw in Wonnilon - who Elmo’s first party met - or forget him? He could be a spy for the Kron Hills Assembly of Gnomes ... in my campaign, the gnomes and Verbobonc are at odds — Fenward Left-Handed is the Viscount and uninterested in the TOEE.

And what about the half-elf spy? I figure she is a spy for either Melf/Knights of Luna or the Gnarley Rangers, so maybe they should have orders from Thrommel to check in with her and extract her once they have the gems?

 

[Coroc]

Drizzt did it, ah no Elminster, ah no wait... ok 'twas Mordenkainen?

 

[Helldritch]

That one could've done it too. He's crazy enough to have done that. Neutrality... Balance... pffffffffft!!!!!!