Grim and Gritty

[daTim]

Im not quite sure if this is the right forum but anyway

Has anyone here run a game with the grim and gritty rules? I've read over them and I really like them. I am a fan of low magic and high danger so these seem like a good fit. I was wondering if anyone had any experiecne with them, and could let me know if there were any changes they recomended, or just plain out hate them and would never want me to try them! Thanks

 

[Altamont Ravenard]

(where can I find those rules? in the DMG?)

AR

 

[daTim]

Sorry, didnt even think to post that... here ya go. Just click on the link and load the pdf

http://www.swordsedge.net/Issue12/GrimNGritty.html

 

[daTim]

Well, here are some of my own insights after becoming more familiar with the rules some. Barbarians seem to be a little weaker, as their rage provides much less of a benefit since you determine tohit by your Dex mod, and it grants only 2 more HP total. Also, really big monsters (huge or larger) get tremendous ammounts of HP, making them very deadly, as they should be i suppose.

 

[Fingers Boggis]

ive not played them but would definately consider doing so, anyhting that encourages players to find other ways through an encounter is fine by me, it might make skill using characters such as bards and rogues more powerful though? as these can cope with a greater diversity of solutions anyway. also i like the idea of if a players going to engage in combat they are going to do so having attained a good tactical advantage first, i think this would promote further thinking by the player.

to sum up, i like them, ill use them and if the threads still active after i do so ill post my thoughts

Fingers

 

[0-hr]

Since his system relies heavily on critical hits, it's going to need to be revamped for 3.5. The lack of stacking crit-range modifiers will really kill his Called Shot system otherwise (they just won't happen enough to warrant the extra paperwork).

 

[daTim]

Critical htis will happen pretty often still. Every time you gain an itterative attack you gain +1 to the threat range of a weapon. So at +11/+6/+1 you get a +2 to any threat range of a weapon.
Also, rogues lose sneak attack, but gain a bonus to hit and on threat ranges when they would otherwise sneak attack. A 10th lvl rogue gets +1 to threat ranges for high BAB, and when flanking another +2 for a total of 18-20 on a heavy pick, or even higher with improved critical and on a better crit weapon. Also, if you perform a successful called shot you can double yoru total chance of a critical hit.
Thus that same lvl 10 rogue when flanking gets +8 to hit (+6 from sneak, +2 from flank) and can take a -4 for a called shot to do double crit range. On a Rapier that gives him a Critical Range of 10-20 (18 natural, -1 from BAB, -2 from lvl, doubled for called shot). Granted you only double the dice, not the Str and other bonus's on a hit, with the low HP people will last just as long in a fight, they will just have to be more creative.
The more familiar with Grim and Gritty I become the more I like it! Put some fear of enemies back in my players... heh

 

[Cbas10]

On the rare occasion that I have tried really hardcore gritty rules, I have simply opted for the Wounds/Vitalty system in Starwars and Spycraft (among other games). The only modifications I add into this are (1) removing all critical hit modifiers [but keeping threat ranges] and (2) allowing Critical Hits to affect any creature [including constructs, undead, etc. In place of their missing Constitution, I use their Strength scores for this mechanic]. Sneak attacks also take damage directly from wounds, but (1) they still follow the same rules as to WHAT they can sneak attack, and (2) they MUST be attacking an opponent who has no idea that the attack is coming [i.e. no more flanking for extra damage; the victim must be completely unaware of any impending attack].

This changes the dynamic of the game in interesting ways. You no longer have warrior types wanting to take a few levels in rogue in order to gain sneak attack abilities. Players are much less willing to wade into combat "to kill more critters and get the kewl treasure." Because players become so much more cautious and aware that they can die so easily, we get a much more realistic and slower rate of advancement in levels. The game simply naturally becomes a LOT more story-oriented in the players' eyes.

 

[Inari]

Well... I've used the Grim n' Gritty rules now for a while, and I have few complaints.

It adresses my main concerns with 3.x, mainly how armor works, and how abstract the system becomes. My players definatelly like GnG, as it reminds them of an old system we used to play.

The only real problem, is when you have either characters in the heavier armor, which provides around 7-8 protection, meaning that the archer players are pretty much *fskd.* In my trial, where we checked if the system worked for us, we player a bit of Ravenloft. The only problem there was that most of the creatures had high natural armor scores, and even DR to back it up. I put them originally against a chain devil, which had 8 in natural armor, and 5 in DR/silver, meaning he "soaked" 13 from each hit... AND he had regeneration of 2... For 7 turn, they were doing nothing, but being toyed with. Half of the group ran away in fear when they saw the devil coming for them, so left was the TWF Ranger, the sword/shield knight and the spearwielding barbarian (as weird as that sounds). They started though playing smartly, and although they were almost dying, they tried fx. tripping him, flanking him, taking him on one-on-one. It ended when the sword/shield guy confirmed a double critical hit, whilst piercing natural armor. He did roughly 20 in damage to him, and then the TWF ranger stepped in, dealing 3 in damage.

So basically, watch out for heavily armored/natural armored creatures, as they do seriously wreck havoc!

Ohh yeah, we also made it so that you aren't restricted to just one called shot, as the iterative attacks usually don't hit when you're laying down a -8 penalty, and suffering -2 from light wounds. That, along with being lvl 6 and only having a +12 modifier to your primary attack. At higher levels, this could be a problem, but for me, it isn't.