[Grim & Gritty] Variants?

[Heretic Apostate]

What are some variants people have tried?

I'm thinking of revamping the magic rules and the classes, but I'm not sure how. I just don't think that the GnG works well with the classes and magic system as is. It's TOO grim 'n' gritty. Basically, I like the realistic rules, but I'd also like to see people survive a few levels....

As for what I'd do to the classes and magic, I'm not sure yet...

 

[CuriousBard]

I like how the GnG rules look. As for magic, I agree that it is very powerful. To tone it down I'd do a few things.

First I like the Odds=1 rule for starts. That helps, but I don't think that would quite do it.

Second, I'd cut down greatly on the number of slots each class can cast. This would increase their dependance on scrolls, wands, staves, etc........which is how I picture them anyway.

I'd probably do something like this.............they can store a base number of "spell points" of prepared spells as their level squared. This means a 1st level Wizard would have 1 point while a 20th level Wizard would have 400 points. The "Spell point" value of a prepared spell is found by multiplying the spell level by the caster level. So a 10th level Wizard preparing Fireball would store it as a 30pt spell. Now since his base number of points would be 100 (10 squared), this means he wouldn't have many spells available to cast.

On top of this Base number of spell points you add in a bonus for their Ability Mod that is also squared. So a 12 Int would grant a Wizard a +1, while an 18 Int would grant +16.

Now to keep a 1st level Wizard with an 18 Int from having 17 points to play with (something that would be VERY unbalancing), you could rule that regardless of ability modifier, the caster can't have a bonus higher than their base number. So that 1st level guy can only utilize 1 bonus point. At 2nd level, his Base would become 4, so he could utilize up to 4 of his bonus points (if he had them), etc

Or something like that.......

 

[Heretic Apostate]

I'd say that I'd have to move most creatures in towards Medium. Maybe dragons and giants are only Huge, instead of Gigantic and Colossal (sp?).

Then I'd work on spells. 0-level spells deal subdual damage. 1st-level spells deal only 1d6 of damage (about the equivalent of a short sword, say). Ramp it up to 5th-level, where you have a chance to actually do some serious damage to the above giants and dragons.

As for number of spells, I'd say have the 1st and 2nd level slots become first level, the 3rd and 4th level slots become second level, the 5th and 6th level slots become third level, the 7th and 8th level slots become fourth level, and 9th level slots become fifth level.

As for how to handle divine, arcane, and psionic "spells," I don't know. I'm not fond of the whole "Vancian" (fire-and-forget) method of magic. Maybe reduce the number of spells available, or have people have the full spectrum of spells available, but only able to "prepare" a selected number, with spontaneous casting. (How to distinguish between the three classes, I don't know.)

Revamp the classes so you have fighter (but with fewer feats?), arcanist (arcane caster), prophet (divine caster, with the domains), rogue, mentalist (psionic caster), woodsman (non-spellcasting ranger-type), shaman (nature-spirit divine caster, reduced spell levels, but some nice feats), and so on. I'd also toss in noble and expert adjusted to be viable classes.

As for prestige classes, who knows?

 

[Kaptain_Kantrip]

I had embarked on some embryonic GnG variants (not being aware of GnG at the time I started) in House Rules not too long ago. They met with some favorable comments, so you might find some good ideas in them. I had two different versions going, LOL.

Here's the 2nd Version:
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3845

And 1st Version:
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3424

 

[mmadsen]

Basically, I like the realistic rules, but I'd also like to see people survive a few levels....

The first few levels are less dangerous in a "Grim 'n' Gritty" game. The characters start with more hit points, and armor works as DR.

It's only when they face high-damage spells and monsters at higher levels (without equally high hit points and DR) that things get "grim".

 

[Malin Genie]

Of course, at high levels magic can be scaled: a Fireball might only deal 2d6 damage, for example. Or spells can take longer to cast (e.g. One full round per spell level) making them less practical combat options. Or some combination thereof.

Of course, in G&G large monsters are going to be terrible foes: you want to be high-level or have a good plan when taking on an ogre or troll, let alone a dragon (think of the scene of the fight with the ogre-troll-thingo in the LotR movie: it took high-level heroes many rounds to kill it, and one blow could have seriously threatened any of them...)

 

[Infinite Monkey]

I'm probably going to use GnG, but without the hit point rules, just the dodge and armour and called shots and so on. If I didn't think my players would mutiny I might give them base hitpoints as GnG and then give them half the normal number of hit points per level (1d4/2, 1d6/2 etc). That would still make them more fragile, but not too grim.