Grim Tales - action points for the bad guys?

[GlassJaw]

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about granting the PC's action points if the bad guys do things to screw them. It seems a little heavy handed to me. You rolled a 1? Oh good, I want you to have a critical fumble. Ehh, can't say I'm a fan. I want the dice to land where they may and the results be constant.

So what are the alternatives?

- Give the bad guys action points? I know this puts the PC's at a disadvantage because the baddies could use all their points against the PC's at once.

- Only the PC's have action points. Definitely makes the PC's more heroic. I'm actually kind of leaning this way. If so, I would definitely not refresh the PC's action points as often. I think Eberron is similar to this.

- Only bad guys with class levels (or very powerful creatures) have action points. This puts the PC's a step above the average monsters and people. For one thing, monsters would never crit the players.

If you use action points in your campaign, how do you handle this?

 

[sinmissing]

Savage Worlds idea:

The DM gets 1 Action Point + 1 AP for each player at the session.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'm not exactly sure how I feel about granting the PC's action points if the bad guys do things to screw them. It seems a little heavy handed to me. You rolled a 1? Oh good, I want you to have a critical fumble. Ehh, can't say I'm a fan. I want the dice to land where they may and the results be constant.

So what are the alternatives?

So just be consistent: Confirm every critical.

I'm not sure how that's less heavy handed than giving the GM the opportunity to fudge, to NOT confirm a critical when it doesn't serve the story but-- hey, knock yourself out.

Wulf

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Have you TRIED the granting method at the table yet? If not, I'd suggest you test it out.

My players love it. Gaga for it.

It makes MY job so much easier. I'm a storyteller. That's why we're all there, really ... isn't it? The rules are there to make it interactive, make it a building experience, but they shouldn't really rule the evening. This method gives the GM more OPTIONS, and I love that. Options rock the casbah.

One aspect is that my players like that I can use it to advance the story ... blatantly, out front. One player rolled a 1 coming in the door for the grand final "boss" fight, so I gave him an AP and hit him in the chest with the "Death Ray". The "Death Ray" was really a plot device, had never intended to use it in combat, but it was alot more fun and flavorful to toss him through a brick wall. No save, no attack roll, no screwing around. BLAMMO. Everybody loved it. I've given them APs to keep them off a track I didn't expect and didn't want them to follow. I've given them APs when I wanted to advance the storyline through doing something horrible to a PC. And nobody complains of "Railroading" ... it's not. They get the choice of the AP. It's a little reward, a little something DIRECTLY useful, and alot better than awarding bonus XP or anything like that.

Here's the other thing. My players have started to LOVE their natural 1s. Sometimes one of them is low on APs, or entirely out of APs ... that natural one is a great point to advance the storyline or have something weird and cinematic happen, and a great way to get some of that mojo back for when THEY want to have more control over the story.

Dunno, just, for me, it adds more options to the game to get it to do what we all want. The dice are a randomizing aspect, and the back and forth of APs is an opportunity for everybody at the table to tweak the story and make it even more their own. I find it's drawn everybody at the table farther into their characters than they ever have been before.

--fje

 

[GlassJaw]

Have you TRIED the granting method at the table yet? If not, I'd suggest you test it out.

Nope, but your suggestions have me intrigued. I love the action point idea and I really want the players to use them liberally. If they know the bad guys can do things that will grant them AP's, then they might be that much more inclined to use them. I also might have refresh every "chapter" in the campaign. I think that will make for very fast-paced and exciting combat.

I'm not sure how that's less heavy handed than giving the GM the opportunity to fudge, to NOT confirm a critical when it doesn't serve the story but-- hey, knock yourself out.

I really need to get it in my head that this style of campaign is little more "loose" than a standard, by-the-books, D&D campaign. I guess I'm just playing devi's advocate in my questioning: trying to anticipate things my players might ask.

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

It's more loose, but it has a structure. APs do certain things for the players. They spend them in certain ways. So they know what APs can DO for them.

I think it's more that it changes the structure. Some of the finality of the dice is removed and placed into the hands of the players and the DM. A roll of 3 still sucks, but if you roll a 12 and you THINK the DC MIGHT be 15 ... there's a chance you might still make it, if you're willing to spend some mojo. It puts the ball back in their court again. Adds another aspect: "Is this a big roll? Are we going to miss something big if I blow this? What happens if I burn an AP and roll a 1 or 2, am I going to need this AP more to confirm a crit on a big nasty?"

Giving them back APs for things also increases their spending. 5 APs is 5 APs if you know you're not going to get any back until the end of the chapter. If you do something really interesting, self-sacrificing and cool, though ... maybe you'll get an AP (one of our house rules, stolen from OldDrew's game, where the other players give out award chits. 5 chits = 1 AP) Maybe you'll roll a 1 and something bad will happen ... but you get that mojo back. Maybe you'll get pounded by a crit, but you get some of that mojo back. Give and take.

--fje

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I really need to get it in my head that this style of campaign is little more "loose" than a standard, by-the-books, D&D campaign. I guess I'm just playing devi's advocate in my questioning: trying to anticipate things my players might ask.

Well, in all seriousness, the first thing you should do is forget everything about D&D. Treat GT like a new rulebook, a new style.

It will keep you out of the "ruts."

(Advice that helps, too, when you're sorting out the level of magic in your game-- if you had "forgotten" D&D before we raised that question, you'd have had an easier time.)

Wulf

 

[GlassJaw]

Well, in all seriousness, the first thing you should do is forget everything about D&D. Treat GT like a new rulebook, a new style.

Advice that helps, too, when you're sorting out the level of magic in your game-- if you had "forgotten" D&D before we raised that question, you'd have had an easier time

So true. I actually put the book down for a couple of weeks and then just picked it up again in the last few days which really helped. Of course, going from working on a low-magic GT campaign to playing a 15th level Mystic Theurge fighting a green dragon underwater in my other campaign doesn't help!

Giving them back APs for things also increases their spending

Definitely, and that's precisely what I want to have happen. I don't want the players to be conservative with their AP's.

maybe you'll get an AP (one of our house rules, stolen from OldDrew's game, where the other players give out award chits. 5 chits = 1 AP)

Can you explain this a bit more? So you mean you let players grant other players AP's? Sounds kind of cool actually. I would like to know more....

 

[HeapThaumaturgist]

Here's the way WE do it ...

Each session, each player starts with three "chits". We use poker chips (a different color for each player, just for tracking). We have four players, so I use three chits per player. If we had more, I'd say 2 chits per player.

Anyway, thos chits are your "pool". They don't count for you, only others. When somebody does something, in game, that you think is interesting or cool or self-sacrificing or cinematic ... you give them one of the chits from your pool as a reward.

When one player has five chits collected from other people, he gets an AP.

Currently it resets each session. Everybody has zero awards at the start of the session and only when you get 5 in one session do you get an AP.

--fje