[Grim Tales] Converting outside classes to a series of Talents

[Tormenet]

Hi all:

My players and I are working on a future switch from D&D to a Grim Tales/Black Company varient. (As several of you have done and are doing.)

In the current campaign, we use alot of stuff from Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed, the classess in particular are very popular.

As I look at it, each class can essentially be converted into a series of Talents. Each new "Talent" must, however, have requirements placed on it that make it so that you need essntially the same level to acquire it. For instance, a Paladin's Divine grace, might have the following requirements: +3 Fortitude save, Alleigance: Good, Alleigance: (any good diety). (just an example, not a final set of requirements)

I feel that, for tracking purposes, doing this conversion now will save book keeping issues later, as the GT book suggests keeping skill points used for non-GT classess restricted.

Any thoughts?

 

[Flynn]

As I look at it, each class can essentially be converted into a series of Talents. Each new "Talent" must, however, have requirements placed on it that make it so that you need essntially the same level to acquire it. For instance, a Paladin's Divine grace, might have the following requirements: +3 Fortitude save, Alleigance: Good, Alleigance: (any good diety). (just an example, not a final set of requirements)

Much of that has already been done for the core v3.5 classes in GT. I imagine it wouldn't be hard to look at how GT has translated abilities from the core, and use it as inspiration for your own translations. Do you currently have any thoughts on Talent Trees and the like that you could share as a jump-off point for the discussion?

With Regards,
Flynn

 

[Tormenet]

Flynn, thanks for your comment.

Here is what one player (the poor slob who drew the assignment, came up with:

Totem Warriors

Here's my shot at putting the totem warrior into GT terms.
The other way would be to just use the class as written, and not allow any multi-classing, but I think that would end up with an overpowered class than anything in GT. They would have a better BAB than all but one class (strong), and three of the five (I didn't count shark as viable in Aryana) would have better hit die than that same strong hero.

Totem special powers are considered talents. The 1st level talent is basic and subsequent talents are advanced. Each successive talent has a prerequisite of the previous talent for a given animal. (i.e. you can’t take the 8th level until you’ve taken the 4th level and you can’t take that one until you’ve taken the 1st level).
Once a character has chosen one animal, they may not choose talents related to another animal.
Character level must meet or exceed the level listed for the talent in AU.
Skills are chosen based on the GT system. Upon choosing the 1st level talent for a given animal, the character receives the bonus skills (if any) as class skills listed for that animal.
Weapon and armor proficiencies are per GT base class.
Characters do not receive bonus feats per AU, but per GT.
Totem warrior abilities which are not listed as powers in the specific animal descriptions, but are common to all totem warriors (animal companion, talking to the animals, spirit companion) can be gained by using a talent slot or using a feat. Again, these each require the lower level ability as a prerequisite. These can not be accessed until after having taken the second Totem special power talent.
The “special” item listed for each except bear (which doesn’t have one) becomes available after taking the second talent for a given animal.

Talents trees for each of the animals are available to the base classes as follows:
Bear Tough
Hawk Fast
Snake Fast
Wolf Strong
Wolverine Strong

This will result in all characters having a lower hit die type than in AU. Bear, Hawk and Snake will all have a lower BAB than in AU. AU assigns totem powers on even levels and GT gives talents on odd levels, so characters will advance in their totem powers about one level behind AU characters.
Other abilities will also come into play later than in AU, but could advance rather rapidly. I put them with a prereq of the second ability (which won’t happen until 5th level) so that players can’t dip in for one level and get lots of bonuses.
However, this may be balanced since the characters will also get more feats than in AU, will have access to other, non-totem talents if they desire (In fact, they will be compelled to take non-totem talents) and compared to other GT characters will have some pretty funky powers.

 

[Flynn]

Totem Warriors

Totem warrior abilities which are not listed as powers in the specific animal descriptions, but are common to all totem warriors (animal companion, talking to the animals, spirit companion) can be gained by using a talent slot or using a feat. Again, these each require the lower level ability as a prerequisite. These can not be accessed until after having taken the second Totem special power talent.

Personally, I'd suggest keeping them as talents instead of allowing either a talent or a feat. Given the nature of these powers, talents seems to fit better than feats.

Kirin'Tor is working with Wulf to get a Grim Tales SRD online before the end of the year. (Hopefully sooner... ) This might give you easy access to a good format for writing these things up properly.

I'll try this weekend to pitch in on your effort as practice for my own future efforts.

Good luck,
Flynn

 

[Tormenet]

Personally, I'd suggest keeping them as talents instead of allowing either a talent or a feat. Given the nature of these powers, talents seems to fit better than feats.

Kirin'Tor is working with Wulf to get a Grim Tales SRD online before the end of the year. (Hopefully sooner... ) This might give you easy access to a good format for writing these things up properly.

I'll try this weekend to pitch in on your effort as practice for my own future efforts.

Good luck,
Flynn

Thanks. Yep, I'm watching that thread closely.

 

[Flynn]

My apologies...

My apologies, my friend,

My father passed away this weekend, and services were yesterday. I'm trying to focus on other things, but I have to admit that my suggestions below may not be to the best of my ability because of distractions. Still, I appreciate the chance to think about something else for a brief moment.

* * * * *
These are based on the Akashic core class:

AKASHIC ABILITY TALENT TREE

Minor Akashic Ability
[Smart] [Advanced]
See Minor Akashi Ability in AU/AE for details. May be selected multiple times.

Lesser Akashic Ability
[Smart] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Minor Akashic Ability (x2)
See Lesser Akashi Ability in AU/AE for details. May be selected multiple times.

Greater Akashic Ability
[Smart] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Minor Akashic Ability (x2), Lesser Akashic Ability (x2)
See Lesser Akashi Ability in AU/AE for details. May be selected multiple times.

* * * * *
These are based on the Champion core class:

CALLING TALENT TREE

Call Shield
[Dedicated]
See Call Shield ability in AU/AE for details.

Call Weapon
[Dedicated] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Call Shield
See Call Weapon ability in AU/AE for details.

CHAMPION ABILITY TALENT TREE

Minor Champion Ability
[Dedicated]
See 1st Level Champion Ability in AU/AE for details.

Lesser Champion Ability
[Dedicated] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Call Upon The Power, Minor Champion Ability
See 5th Level Champion Ability in AU/AE for details.

Improved Champion Ability
[Dedicated] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Call Upon The Power, Minor Champion Ability, Lesser Champion Ability
See 10th Level Champion Ability in AU/AE for details.

Greater Champion Ability
[Dedicated] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Call Upon The Power, Take On The Mantle, Minor Champion Ability, Lesser Champion Ability, Improved Champion Ability
See 15th Level Champion Ability in AU/AE for details.

Superior Champion Ability
[Dedicated] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Call Upon The Power, Take On The Mantle, Avatar, Minor Champion Ability, Lesser Champion Ability, Improved Champion Ability, Superior Champion Ability
See 20th Level Champion Ability in AU/AE for details.

INFUSE WITH POWER TALENT TREE

Call Upon The Power
[Dedicated] [Advanced]
See Call Upon The Power ability in AU/AE for details.

Take On The Mantle
[Dedicated] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Call Upon The Power, Minor Champion Ability, Lesser Champion Ability, Improved Champion Ability
See Take On The Mantle ability in AU/AE for details.

Avatar
[Dedicated] [Advanced]
Prequisite: Call Upon The Power, Take On The Mantle, Minor Champion Ability, Lesser Champion Ability, Improved Champion Ability, Greater Champion Ability
See Avatar ability in AU/AE for details.

* * * * *

Hope this helps spark some thoughts and ideas,
Flynn

 

[Kirin'Tor]

Thanks. Yep, I'm watching [the Grim Tales SRD] thread closely.

As a note of something that may be of help in the future: along with the pure GT-SRD, the site will (over time, GT-SRD comes first) contain my own SRD collection of converted/adapted material fused with GT for my homebrew fantasy world. Sources will include the D&D rSRD, Arcana Unearthed, Unearthed Arcana, Iron Heroes, Medieval Players Manual, and many others. It will be seperate from the GT-SRD, but organized in a similar way.

 

[Flynn]

Need additional GT material?

As a note of something that may be of help in the future: along with the pure GT-SRD, the site will (over time, GT-SRD comes first) contain my own SRD collection of converted/adapted material fused with GT for my homebrew fantasy world. Sources will include the D&D rSRD, Arcana Unearthed, Unearthed Arcana, Iron Heroes, Medieval Players Manual, and many others. It will be seperate from the GT-SRD, but organized in a similar way.

Kirin'Tor,

I'm doing similar work for my upcoming GT sword-and-planet campaign, and would like to know if you'd want any of those as contributions to your supplemental material site, once the GT-SRD is up.

Hope This Helps,
Flynn

 

[Kirin'Tor]

Flynn - I'd be very interested in seeing you material, esp. if you consider your work OGC (or would consider making it so).E-Mail me as you see fit - the pace is yours to set!

 

[Tormenet]

My apologies, my friend,

My father passed away this weekend, and services were yesterday. I'm trying to focus on other things, but I have to admit that my suggestions below may not be to the best of my ability because of distractions. Still, I appreciate the chance to think about something else for a brief moment.


Hope this helps spark some thoughts and ideas,
Flynn

My sincere condolences.

I'm stunned at how incredibly cool it is that, given a major event like that, you still went out of your way to help a complete stranger. I think that reflects very highly on both you and your father.

Tormenet