Grim Tales Magic Book...

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

It will definitely be available in PDF format, and in print almost certainly perfect-bound. It will depend on how many pages I end up with, but I'll be aiming for 96-144 specifically so it can be perfect bound.
Wulf

Crafty bastard. I'll not be able to resist picking up the PDF the moment it hits the 'street'. And I'll end up getting a hardcopy since I really prefer that for long stuff and things that will get passed around the table.

I'm really torn between participating in this discussion and sticking my fingers in my ears making 'naaa-naaa' noises so I don't hear any spoilers.

(One failed Will save later....)

I would agree with the seeming consensus that 'spellbooks' with formula/charts/tables in the back for those who wish to tinker is probably the most user-friendly.

Here's what I'm hoping to see: (Feel free to ignore me. Just because I have no willpower is no reason to encourage me.)

Expansion of the existing GT magic system to further codify the various options. By this I mean an official version of the various things that have been discussed here -- the subtle and not-so-subtle effects of changing the burn die, for instance.

'Rules packs' of pre-determined options that can be used off the shelf to create a desired genre. For example, a modernish Psi toolset with pre-determined burn die, spell lists, etc.

New and creative uses of action points specifically for use with magic. No more will APs be spent just to make the caster check!

New feats and talents specifically geared towards spellcasting. Metamagic (while a nice addition going from 2e to 3e) is boring.

Ok, this all might be hypocritical. Or at least ironic, wishing for more magic in a game I like specifically because it is low magic....

As far as Minor/Lesser/Greater getting boring, there's no reason you can't have wild names for them. Hmmm....wonder if anyone has done a 'Vancian' name generator?

 

[Henry]

I'm a huge fan of "Option A", but "Option B" will be a lot easier for most gamers to understand and apply. The disadvantage of BCCS magic is that you essentially come up with Gygaxian Spells of set effect just to avoid the paperwork, and rarely think outside that frame.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I'm a huge fan of "Option A", but "Option B" will be a lot easier for most gamers to understand and apply. The disadvantage of BCCS magic is that you essentially come up with Gygaxian Spells of set effect just to avoid the paperwork, and rarely think outside that frame.

In years past, a friend of mine and I were writing our own RPG (like, who in this hobby doesn't?). We wanted the flexibility of a craft-as-you-go point system but didn't like how it dragged the game to a crawl. So we added rules that made it very attractive for the caster to have a repetoire of common spells where he would 'mostly cast' the spell ahead of time (presaging the current 3e system, oddly enough). Changing any of the parameters of the spell at the time of casting added to the time it took, the difficulty, etc. It worked pretty well. Casters would stick to the stuff they'd planned out ahead of time, as they didn't want to risk the fizzle or were afraid of getting stuck with sharp objects if they tinkered. The choices were there, though, if they really needed that extra damage, or had to change from a firebolt to a lightning bolt to get around a critters resistance.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Crafty bastard. I'll not be able to resist picking up the PDF the moment it hits the 'street'. And I'll end up getting a hardcopy since I really prefer that for long stuff and things that will get passed around the table.

Nothing crafty about it; I'm sorry to say it's simply a self-defense mechanism born of the evolution of the d20 market.

Expansion of the existing GT magic system to further codify the various options. By this I mean an official version of the various things that have been discussed here -- the subtle and not-so-subtle effects of changing the burn die, for instance.

It's a little more than you're expecting, then. We'll have several interrelated components that you can choose from. Each component details how players learn spells, how they cast spells, and what are the effects of spell burn. In GT, spell burn is enacted as ability damage, but obviously there are other options: lethal or non-lethal damage, sanity loss, fatigue, and so on.

You could even use multiple spell burn systems for different kinds of spells. All "Healing" spells might cause non-lethal damage, for example, all Evocations could cause fatigue, and all Necromancy could cause sanity loss. All of these components are independent of the specific rules component that determines the amount of spell burn itself-- you just carry that factor over to the spell burn side effect that suits you.

Wulf

 

[solomoncane]

In years past, a friend of mine and I were writing our own RPG (like, who in this hobby doesn't?). We wanted the flexibility of a craft-as-you-go point system but didn't like how it dragged the game to a crawl. So we added rules that made it very attractive for the caster to have a repetoire of common spells where he would 'mostly cast' the spell ahead of time (presaging the current 3e system, oddly enough). Changing any of the parameters of the spell at the time of casting added to the time it took, the difficulty, etc. It worked pretty well. Casters would stick to the stuff they'd planned out ahead of time, as they didn't want to risk the fizzle or were afraid of getting stuck with sharp objects if they tinkered. The choices were there, though, if they really needed that extra damage, or had to change from a firebolt to a lightning bolt to get around a critters resistance.

This is essentially the approach of Rangerwickett's EoM where "signature" (pre-fab) spells take 1 action while on-the-fly spells take 2 actions, IIRC.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Nothing crafty about it; I'm sorry to say it's simply a self-defense mechanism born of the evolution of the d20 market.

Oh, I know. And I think it's a good thing, not merely a self-defense mechanism. PDF publishing has certainly created opportunites for a lot of people.

I just wish I had the patience to wait for my preferred format. I'm very much an 'I want it *now* person. (I remember one day when I was 15 or 16 my friend and I drove around town trying to find 'our' UPS guy to get our copy of Rolemaster because we didn't want to wait for the regular delivery time.)

Definitely looking forward to this. Think it'll be out before October? I'm hopefully going to run something GT-inspired at the next gameday.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Definitely looking forward to this. Think it'll be out before October? I'm hopefully going to run something GT-inspired at the next gameday.

Very unlikely, unless I can take my laptop on my honeymoon.


Wulf

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I was going to say 'Where are your priorities, man?' Then I remembered I was sitting alone in my bathrobe eating cold leftover Chinese food and not caring whether I left the toilet seat up or not, and realized I probably wasn't the best judge of such things

Congrats, Wulf!

 

[Azgulor]

I'd be a big fan of tossing the tables and whatnot into an appendix. I feel, personally, that a system where I can do just about ANYTHING, and have rules and charts and all the rest to make it happen, is very important. Important for the GM, but more important for the characters. My BCCS wizard player LOVED the system ... but we all sometimes hated the book-keeping. It was nice to twink out the perfect on-the-fly "we need 10' burst at 50' for 4d4 Nonlethal damage ..." but it would have been nice to have a Lesser Hammer Of Air or something that could be referenced quickly and easily.

As a GM I'll go ahead and say I want a variety of pre-determined effects, but I want those effects to function within a logical and reproducible system whose rules and inner workings are available and laid out in an understandable way. For the GM, the D&D spell system works wonderfully ... Fireball is Fireball is Fireball. You have a fireball, it does X every time, you look up "Fireball" in the book and there it is. It's not very flexible for the player ... if he wants a Fireball that deals damage in d4s instead of d6 or is only 15' across, he can't do it.

THAT is what I'm looking for in a magic system. My cake and the ability to get under the frosting and play in it too.

--fje

Thank you. You've summarized what I want as well and much better than I would have done.

So, yeah, what he said!

 

[Kirin'Tor]

I think the "Spellbook" format would be a much "better" read, but the tables would be utterly invaluable. I second *(or 3rd, 4th, etc.) the opinion that the meat should be in spellbook format, with tables either in the appendix, or arranged Ars-Magica style:

A 1/2 page table of related effects (say, 1 per D&D school; or something similar) followed by a few pages of spell-book style spells related to that category; repeat for each category (and maybe repeat all the effects in the appendix)