[GRIM TALES] varying action dice by level - yay or nay?

[GlassJaw]

I'm looking for some comments on the pros and cons of using the action point dice by character level variant rule. What are you using?

The obvious difference is using a smaller die increases the chance for an exploding die (which I will be using) while a larger die has a higher average roll.

What I'm trying to gauge is how a campaign would vary if the variant was or wasn't used. What types of campaigns would the variant be better suited for?

In Wulf's GT game he ran for the Boston gameday, we were 12th level but the action die was d6. I have to admit, part of the fun of the AP system is when it explodes. Case in point: one guy rolled 5 6's in a row followed by a 5 for a total of 35. That definitely got the table excited.

So should the action die be a constant regardless of level or do you like it to change depending on the character's level?

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

Hard to address this question without taking into consideration how common APs are in your world. A low AP die combined with an abundance of action points would, I think, cause the game to become a 'who rolls the exploding die first' contest. It would also tend to trivialize skill points, to some extent, as lucky rolls would play a more prominant part.

Theortically, spending APs to increase die rolls should decrease as the characters level. That extra d6 when you need a 17 to hit on your sole attack is damn handy. That same d6 (or even a d10) when you need a 17 to hit on your third iterative attack isn't nearly as useful.

I don't much care for exploding dice, in any event. Too many bad Rolemaster memories.

 

[Fenris]

I mostly agree with Rodrigo here. If you have a finite amount of APs then exploding die are very appropriate, if you are replenshing them every session, probably not. The length of the camgaign and the level at whcih it is set are key factors in how you set the APs.

I disagree with the comment that you should have a a decreasing value of APs as you increase in level. I think the APs should increase in levels to mirror the more heroic nature of the characters at higher levels. Sure the d6 on the iterative attacks doesn't matter much, but when your 15th level a d6 healing, means much less than the d10. Really if you think about it, even with the progressive APs, the net effect of them does become less. That is of course assuming a non-exploding die.

Glassjaw: use 'em and let us know how they go.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I disagree with the comment that you should have a a decreasing value of APs as you increase in level. I think the APs should increase in levels to mirror the more heroic nature of the characters at higher levels.

Let me clarify.

I didn't mean to imply that there should be fewer action dice at higher levels. What I meant was, at higher levels, characters won't be using them to add a small amount to a typical die roll. They'll use them for the other things (eg confirming a crit) that can only be done with APs.

 

[GlassJaw]

Glassjaw: use 'em and let us know how they go.

Oh, I'm definitely going to use AP's. I'm going to replenish them at every level up and maybe once in a great while after a major chapter of the campaign is completed. Even then, I probably won't do it unless it's been a while since the players leveled up.

On a related note, I'm also going to control when the characters level up. While I'm going to keep track of XP, I'm going to give it out. I figure this would also help me keep tabs on how much the players use their AP's and how much I want to replenish them. As far my campaign goes, the characters are starting at 2nd level and the campaign could eventually get into the teens or higher.

I'm also definitely going to use exploding. I just think it's fun. I'm running sort of an intro to GT game this weekend for my group and I hope we get some exploding opportunities!

So as far as varying the action die by level, I guess it really comes down to whether you want to keep the chance for an exploding die the same regardless of level or you want to initial action die roll to result in a higher number. I'm leaning towards the constant exploding chance. I figure it's also once less thing that will change during the course of the campaign.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

But in my game, I was only using the exploding action die for healing after combat-- not for normal d20 checks.

That makes a difference.


Wulf

 

[GlassJaw]

But in my game, I was only using the exploding action die for healing after combat-- not for normal d20 checks.

That makes a difference.

Hmm, good point. But you were also using your new-fangled mythic path stuff which makes AP's a lot more powerful.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

But you were also using your new-fangled mythic path stuff which makes AP's a lot more powerful.

Yes, and no.

I mean, obviously they improve action points. But you'd be surprised how little the average actually changes. (I'd show you the math but it was eaten by my hard drive crash.)

I seem recall that a shadowed die was just about 1 better, on average, than an unshadowed die; 4 and change. A doubled die takes the average up to 7 (natch). A shadowed and doubled die averaged a bit over 8.

Which, frankly, surprised me. Maybe my math was off. (If you'd like to tackle the probabilities, I'd love to have that hard work back again, especially if it's done better.)

What the mythic stuff really did was to encourage the spending of action points. Baldric was sneaking around with Hide rolls in the high 30's, but it's not like he needed to spend those action dice. His base sneak had to be up on the high teens or twentys.

EDIT: Checked it out. Here you go:

Single d6 average: 3.5
Shadowed avg: 4.4722222
Doubled avg: 7
Shadowed/Doubled: 8.458333

So, shadowed, on average, translates into a +1 bonus to your action die; and doubled, well, doubles it.

EDIT 2: Uploaded the spreadsheet so others are free to check my math.

Wulf

 

[Fenris]

But in my game, I was only using the exploding action die for healing after combat-- not for normal d20 checks.

That makes a difference.


Wulf

There you go again Wulf. Taking my convoluted and conplicated house rules for putting a little bit of non-magical healing into my Grim Tales game, and rendering them useless and unnecessary with one sentance for a quick and easy, non-rules involved fix.

Thanks for (again) preventing me from over-complicating my game. This is why I am Grim Tales convert.

 

[BryonD]

EDIT 2: Uploaded the spreadsheet so others are free to check my math.

Wulf

Dude, MAX and MIN functions, they are your friend.


=SUM(J2:L2)-MIN(J2:L2)

is a lot easier than

=IF(J2>K2,J2+(IF(K2>L2,K2,L2)),K2+(IF(J2>L2,J2,L2)))