gritty industrial/sci-fi horror RPG recommendation?

timbannock

Hero
Supporter
It's a RPG genre I'm not too familiar with, but I'm interested in picking up a game to learn. I kind of prefer lighter weight games, but strong genre mechanics are also important, imo, for such worlds with such atmospheric settings.

In poking around, I've seen a quite a lot about Alien and Mothership. Does anyone have any opinions about those or about others, such as Hostile (Cepheus engine), Those Dark Places, or Death in Space?
My take on the ones I'm familiar with:

Alien is great for being Alien. While it's got supplements that expand the field of play considerably, I really think it shines best as a one-shot where you and the players really buy into selling the Panic table results and pretty much working towards a Paranoia-esque 'everybody dies in the end.' The 2nd edition is reported to be reworking that table, so my views may change once that drops. I say all of this with love; I really enjoyed it, I just don't think it's great for anything more than what Alien (the franchise) means to me.

Mothership looks like Alien but actually more flexible, in the sense that it has so much worldbuilding generation built into the tables and procedures. You necessarily have to take a stance and answer certain questions on certain information (how do androids work, for example), and that allows the players to have a lot of say in the game's setting. That makes it both easier to jump into than Alien (you don't have to be a fan), and more customized to your group's preferences. That said, I'm not a fan of d% systems, so it's ultimately not going to scratch my itch as a GM, but I'd play the heck out of it.

Death in Space is great, because it has some of what Mothership does, but in an even easier-to-mod fashion since it's just a hyper-simplified D&D derivative. Its compatibility with OSR stuff means you can just slot in a bajillion old school-compatible adventures, supplements, monsters, spells, powers, gear, whatever and it all just works without much effort. That said, it's a little too barebones on its own. I found slotting in stuff from the Mork Borg-inspired sci-fi game Vast Grimm greatly expanded things, and made it feel more...complete? You can also use DiS' systems for capital ship combat while using Vast Grimm's Spacecruisers supplement for more dog-fight-y style ship combat without missing a beat. But all that said, while it's my favorite on your list, I think "needs other stuff to make it feel more robust" is a knock against it...unless you've got that other stuff.

I'm not familiar with the other two, other than to say that Cepheus is Traveller compatible, so that also opens up a lot of the benefits of DiS. If you don't mind light conversion work, that's a huge boon in getting more gaming material to the table very quickly.

Given your specific purposes of learning a game that's got a very strong genre slant, I'd argue Mothership is maybe your best bet, given it also has one of the greatest GM manuals in gaming, not just for the specific genre. Runner up would be DiS, IMO.
 

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hawkeyefan

Legend
@J.Quondam I’ve run both Alien and Mothership. They’re pretty similar games, but have a slightly different approach. Both are pretty straightforward, rules wise, with Alien being a little more involved.

I think one of the main differences is that Alien has more character abilities based on class. You pick from a list of class abilities when you create your character, and when you level up. In Mothership, there are no such class abilities. Your class just determines which stats and skills you get a boost to, and what kind of effect kicks in for Panic.

So if your players are focused on ideas like character build and like to have class abilities and the like, then Alien might be the way to go. One thing I like about Alien as well is that the Xenomorphs (and other critters) include a random table to determine their attack. Some of their attacks will kill a PC outright, so I like this way of putting such a decision to the dice rather than the GM.

Other than that, though, I would say go with Mothership. The 1E Boxed Set has everything you need to play. If you want to try it out, the Player’s Survival Guide is available for PWYW on Drivethru. I do think, however, that you need something else to run the game. The PSG provides all the player facing stuff, but none of the rules for monsters or enemies. I’d suggest grabbing a module as well as the PSG.

The modules for Mothership (the ones by the publisher, Tuesday Knight Games, anyway) are all very well done. Each of them has a different vibe and purpose. Dead Planet is a point-crawl type scenario. Another Bug Hunt is a site based scenario. A Pound of Flesh is a space station sandbox. Gradient Descent is a mega-dungeon, each of those is $20 on DTRPG. I’ve used A Pound of Flesh and gotten 20 sessions out of it, and have barely scratched the surface of what’s there.

There’s also The Haunting of Ypsilon-14 which is a two page one-shot that you can grab for $5. That might be a good way to gage interest for a cheap price.
 

aramis erak

Legend
It's a RPG genre I'm not too familiar with, but I'm interested in picking up a game to learn. I kind of prefer lighter weight games, but strong genre mechanics are also important, imo, for such worlds with such atmospheric settings.

In poking around, I've seen a quite a lot about Alien and Mothership. Does anyone have any opinions about those or about others, such as Hostile (Cepheus engine), Those Dark Places, or Death in Space?
Alien is awesome... but note: the adventures for it are NOT for campaign play! They're specifically for the cinematic mode and are indeed very heavily slanted for quick death and clock timed events. They're intended to directly feel like the movies in scope.

In the cinematic mode, the characters are intended to be pregens, they have backgrounds that tie in to the adventure, and they have a set of 3 priority cards per PC. There may or may not be a prologue scene or two. Act One varies in length, but it's comparable to acts I-II of the movies. Act II is comparable to act III of the movies, and act III is comparable to acts IV-V of the movies. Each of the acts, you give the player their matching

There is also the campaign mode, which is essentially a Travelleresque space opera game, with three well supported modes: Space Truckers, Mercenaries, and Colonial residents. It scratches my Traveller itch better than my kitbash of Traveller editions. (And that is better than any particular published edition.) There is the chance of a Xenomorph encounter... but it's 1/36 of missions (not sessions) and could easily be used for other obnoxious beasts...

I created a Vorpal Bunny... it took them another two missions (3 sessions) to eradicate them from the ship. No, they were not cargo... they were a local pest... cute, furry, lapine-like 6-toothed (each arcade 1 incisor and 2 carnassials), R-strategy, social hyper carnivores.

it's a solid game, with a nifty thematic stress system - a little stress is good; a lot breaks you.
 

Enaknomolos

Villager
I would still (after 40 some years and many sci-fi games) use Classic Traveller for this.

Of the ones you mention, I've read all of them except Alien, but only played Death in Space. Here are my, probably slightly idiosyncratic, takes:

The reason I've not bothered with Alien is that I'm not a fan of RPG's licensed from other media. They're always filled with lots of pages of fluff I either already know or don't care about. I love Free League's production values, but I am not a big fan of their rules. I doubt Alien is lightweight, especially compared to the others you mention.

Mothership seems very tightly designed, but there's quite a lot of setting deliberately implied in the rules (as opposed to laid out in fluff). That's fine; but its particular implied setting seems heavier on the horror side and lighter on the blue collar/'just scraping by' side to me. I prefer the latter, and like a bit more flexibility anyway. I also saw this very negative 'played-it' review. I can't vouch for its accuracy, but it seems to raise some valid mechanical concerns.

I enjoyed Death in Space in a beer-and-pretzels way; but wouldn't play it again. Again, the rules have a lot of implied, but only lightly fleshed-out, setting. In particular it has a fair amount of idiosyncratic transhumanism and 'space magic' that wouldn't be easy to cut. Compared to Traveller's modular design, its rules are just not very adaptable. They also felt incomplete and kinda sketchy in play. In particular, the setting of the book's sample adventure (very human grimy-industrial) doesn't particularly match character creation and some other rules (which are very transhuman-weird). It just feels like a bunch of cool stuff thrown at the wall without much consideration of how it fits together. It's also not OSR in the sense of being a close clone of old D&D, so its not particularly cross-compatible with anything else (apart from in the sense that any game could be adaptable to anything else). OSR-compatibility is useless for sci-fi anyway. The number of old Traveller modules is orders of magnitude higher than the amount of TSR-D&D scifi. Overall, this was a big miss for me, and I thought I would love it. The book is gorgeous and some of the random tables are cool, but I gave my copy away.

My main problem with Those Dark Places is the writing style, to the point I found it hard to give the game a fair chance. All the rules are presented in-game-universe, which is maybe cool in concept, but which I found extremely grating in execution. The chatty, verbose, tone just rubbed me up the wrong way. That said, the system looks simple (1d6 based) and elegant enough; and it nails the gritty vibe perhaps best of all the ones you mention. Beautiful art too. There's a sequel, Pressure that expands on it and looks similarly pretty; but I haven't bothered with it due to my issues with the writing.

Hostile falls, just a little bit, into a problem that a lot of Cepheus games have. If you don't know Traveller, then Traveller itself (whether Mongoose or Classic) is a better written introduction to the system; but if you're already familiar with Traveller, then Hostile doesn't do a ton that you couldn't houserule (or that wasn't already done in in an early-80s magazine article, to be honest). That said, Hostile suffers this problem less than most because Paul Elliot is a pretty good writer. The real value of this game is in the huge (300+ page) setting book that is far more complete than an of the others discussed here (except maybe Alien). If that is something you would like, Hostile is probably the best option. The Rules are just lightly-modded Mongoose Traveller: perfectly servicable but I would prefer Classic for this (see below). This game a lot more complete than the other systems you mention: it has specific rules for different environments, different vehicles and so on. They system is modular though, as is the Traveller way, so the core is light and you just add what you want. If you go for Hostile, I reccomend also getting the free Mongoose Traveller starter PDFs just to help you get used to the system.

As I said, I would go with Classic Traveller. Its core is extremely light, but it has modules for everything, so you can add the systems that work for you. In particular, it's lighter than Mongoose Traveller or Hostile. It's also lower-powered (you won't have anywhere near as many skills), more brutal (you might not survive character creation and that sets expectations right for the rest of the rules), and gritty (unlike most of the games discussed here, you're not likely start with a beat-up, barely functioning spaceship: that's something you'll have to work towards). If you're not used to old games, as opposed to 'old-school' games, the rules might seem strange at first. There's no central skill mechanic, so read all the skill descriptions carefully and internalise the approach that Miller is pointing to in them. In essence, this is to roll 2d6 against a target number (usually 6, 8, or 10) and referee decides what mods are appropriate to that particular test. Maybe your skill points each give a bonus of one, maybe they each give a bonus of two, maybe a particularly high characteristic is similarly relevant. The ref decides (with player input).

The advantages of using classic Trav are simple. It has more support than all the other options combined by many orders of magnitude. This is a game that literally did most of the stuff you would want before the designers of some of the other games were born (stats for Alien facehuggers are in Journal of the Traveller's Aid Society #4 from 1980, for example). The core is as light as anything, but you can expand it as much as you want, and it has robust rules for almost anything. It's free in PDF or dirt cheap in print. All you need to start is the core and maybe Citizens of the Imperium for some gritty extra careers.

Thanks for reading my thesis!
 

Swanosaurus

Adventurer
Of all those you mentioned, I've only read Mothership (and haven't played it yet) - I love it's aesthetics and I generally like %-systems, so it should be just right for me (and I played the MS-based RPG Cloud Empress, and the rules worked pretty well for me). Based on that, I can recommend Mothership as a rules-lite RPG with a wide-open implied setting that just looks so cool.

The others I honestly only have given a glance.

A game that bears mention in this context and predates all of the others would be Shadows over Sol, which is supposed to get a 2nd edition next year. The first edition has a card-based resolution system that is mainly skill-based, pretty simple and uses the suits for some interesting twists; I think it might run like a simplfied Cyberpunk 2020. It has a setting: The solar system is largely colonized, earth is along Blade Runner lines, all in all a combination between corporate dystopia and the early Expanse novels. I have a really soft spot for it, though it is not as stylish as Mothership, Alien, Dead in Space ...
 

J.Quondam

CR 1/8
As I said, I would go with Classic Traveller. Its core is extremely light, but it has modules for everything, so you can add the systems that work for you. In particular, it's lighter than Mongoose Traveller or Hostile. It's also lower-powered (you won't have anywhere near as many skills), more brutal (you might not survive character creation and that sets expectations right for the rest of the rules), and gritty (unlike most of the games discussed here, you're not likely start with a beat-up, barely functioning spaceship: that's something you'll have to work towards). If you're not used to old games, as opposed to 'old-school' games, the rules might seem strange at first. There's no central skill mechanic, so read all the skill descriptions carefully and internalise the approach that Miller is pointing to in them. In essence, this is to roll 2d6 against a target number (usually 6, 8, or 10) and referee decides what mods are appropriate to that particular test. Maybe your skill points each give a bonus of one, maybe they each give a bonus of two, maybe a particularly high characteristic is similarly relevant. The ref decides (with player input).
Oh yeah, another good call. Somehow I never played more than a few sessions of Traveller in all these years, and only just picked up (finally!) a facsimile version of THe Traveller Book this past summer. It's been great fun to experience an actual old game "for the first time" again.
 


overgeeked

B/X Known World
As much as I love Classic Traveller, I’m not sure how well it would do as a horror game. It absolutely has the industrial sci-fi thing sewn up, no question. If you’re looking for a horror game with mechanics that support horror, I don’t see Traveller doing that. If you want to just throw big scary monsters at Traveller characters and that’s close enough, it could work. To me there’s a big difference between a game designed for horror and a game the referee injects horror into.
 

J.Quondam

CR 1/8
As much as I love Classic Traveller, I’m not sure how well it would do as a horror game. It absolutely has the industrial sci-fi thing sewn up, no question. If you’re looking for a horror game with mechanics that support horror, I don’t see Traveller doing that. If you want to just throw big scary monsters at Traveller characters and that’s close enough, it could work. To me there’s a big difference between a game designed for horror and a game the referee injects horror into.
Yeah, that's kinda why I'm also wondering about Hostile. Since it's based on Cepheus, I think it'll be close enough to Traveller to be pretty familiar, while I think also including some sort of panic mechanic.

But I'll find out soon enough: I went ahead and ordered a copy of Hostile Solo for a taste. I also picked up the Mothership Players Guide. Those should keep me occupied for a while, and maybe I'll look into some of the other systems in the coming year.
 

overgeeked

B/X Known World
Yeah, that's kinda why I'm also wondering about Hostile. Since it's based on Cepheus, I think it'll be close enough to Traveller to be pretty familiar, while I think also including some sort of panic mechanic.

But I'll find out soon enough: I went ahead and ordered a copy of Hostile Solo for a taste. I also picked up the Mothership Players Guide. Those should keep me occupied for a while, and maybe I'll look into some of the other systems in the coming year.
The core Traveller rules specifically modified to do horror absolutely could work. Depends on the mods. But pure, unmodified Classic Traveller? I’m not sure about that.

Either way, good luck and have fun.
 

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