D&D (2024) Group Checks?

[Crimson Longinus]

Other system stuff being redesigned/removed while I'm at it:

The new edition removed the rules for contested rolls and improvising contests. Terrible decision.

Whaaat? There are countless situations where contested rolls are essential.

 

[SpellObjectEnthusiast]

Whaaat? There are countless situations where contested rolls are essential.

Yep! Originally Shove and Grapple were just two examples of a limitless number of Contests the GM could call for.

Now Shove and Grapple are codified actions and Contests are gone.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Yep! Originally Shove and Grapple were just two examples of a limitless number of Contests the GM could call for.

Now Shove and Grapple are codified actions and Contests are gone.

I totally get changing those two, but if that approach is meant to replace all contests they should say so and explain how to do it.

 

[billd91]

I think the DMG has exactly the wrong reasons for Group Checks (which I usually really like).

It should be a tool to make some group attempts interesting instead (near-)automatic misses or successes. It's not only tied to stealth, but also to knowledge or perception checks, where a singe success mean success for all .. so there is no reason to even roll if you have a normal or large group, even if no one is trained in such things.

I always see group-checks as someone good is helping someone who is bad at the task. Like letting the best at sneaking in the front and everyone is following silently in his footsteps, or testing the group-knowledge of Arcana, climing a mountain together where the best Athlete is moving forward securing the rope..

This makes for good group activities that bond the heroes together instead of leaving most behind (sneaking) or everyone needlessly chiming in because a single good roll is needed (knowledge). It might not be the most realistical rule, but one that helps with some skill-related problems that plague rpg's since forever.

P.S.: A good alternative rule to group checks is to give the leading (usually the most skilled) charakter Advantage or Disadvantage depending if a group hinders or help the Action. That migates the pure luck factor of the D20-Die.

I wouldn't agree with the use of group check rules with knowledge skills. With a knowledge skill, assuming PCs are sharing what they know, the most important result is the highest one since that's the one most likely to reflect the most information. The group, as a whole, doesn't need to pass the check for that information to be disseminated, just one smarty-pants PC. Putting their heads together, yes, that seems appropriate for help to give the PC with the highest modifier advantage. Running it as a group check would actually make it harder for the PC group to know the information in question.

 

[Retros_x]

But if we are sensible and assume that RAI is that invisibility makes things invisible, then that applies to one gained from hiding as well.

I really don't think that the sensible RAI is to assume one can hide behind a crate, become a ghost and can now roam freely.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

I really don't think that the sensible RAI is to assume one can hide behind a crate, become a ghost and can now roam freely.

Indeed. But the issue is that either it works like that or the invisibility spell does nothing.

 

[Baumi]

I wouldn't agree with the use of group check rules with knowledge skills. With a knowledge skill, assuming PCs are sharing what they know, the most important result is the highest one since that's the one most likely to reflect the most information. The group, as a whole, doesn't need to pass the check for that information to be disseminated, just one smarty-pants PC. Putting their heads together, yes, that seems appropriate for help to give the PC with the highest modifier advantage. Running it as a group check would actually make it harder for the PC group to know the information in question.

Yeah, but usually the highest is not the one with the highest skill, but those who rolled the highest on the D20.

And I agree that this need not be a group-check, but usually if a knowledge (or perception) roll fails, than the other players start to yell that they want to roll too until one rolled high.. which makes the whole check useless. But as I have writen in my other post, a good alternative is to just let the highest skilled charakter roll and if the whole group discuss the knowledge than that character should roll with advantage.

 

[Retros_x]

Indeed. But the issue is that either it works like that or the invisibility spell does nothing.

I would say the spell doesnt work like that because it has different conditions to end early. I can only assume that RAI works like that and I will ignore other interpretations. It wouldnt surprise me if they change the phrasing of hiding in upcoming errata.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Indeed. But the issue is that either it works like that or the invisibility spell does nothing.

You are neglecting the condition of the hide action.

 

[Yaarel]

I really don't think that the sensible RAI is to assume one can hide behind a crate, become a ghost and can now roam freely.

If a hidden person then starts to roam freely while staying out of where others are looking, I require rerolling the attempt to hide each round that one is out in the open.