Group skill checks

[Noumenon]

For a stealth skill challenge; I'd suggest PCs roll stealth, 1 success/fail per stealth, on a fail the PCs who succeeded can roll Perception to spot what the failees are doing wrong and help them, 1 success/fail per roll, repeat until # of successes or failures racked up.

That mirrors my experience of trying to stealth during army field training. I'm quite good at it, we were in a dark wood at night & I remember spotting another soldier whose uncovered metal wristwatch gleamed brightly. I told him to cover it, unfortunately I failed my Charisma check & he just threatened me and didn't cover it up, so IRL we'd probably have been massacred.

This is an amazing solution. It brings stealth into group play instead of being something only the rogue can do by himself, and it uses the skill challenge mechanic to turn stealth from a single pass-fail group check into a longer scenario with some tension.

Here's what I'd do for a four-person party:

• Skill challenge is four successes before three failures.
• Everyone has to roll Stealth.
• For anyone who fails stealth, the DM or players narrate a reason why (like Alphastream's knocked-over vase or S'mon's uncovered metal wristwatch).
• Anyone who passed their stealth (but no one else) can now use their other skills to try to earn another success by covering up for the stealth error. (for example, Acrobatics to catch the vase, Survival to scare up a flock of birds that covers the noise, Disguise to cover the wristwatch).
• The DC for this check is 6 higher than the original Stealth check (represents the fact that things have been botched and that ruleswise, we're substituting good trained skill checks for untrained Stealth checks).

In practice, if only one character out of four has a bad roll you can usually recover (you need one good roll before two bad ones), and if two characters fail you can still save with two good rolls in a row. Four good rolls or three bad ones complete the skill challenge on the first roll, so not every stealth check will turn into a series of checks.

I just love how much narration and tension this adds to stealth scenes. I love how it lets the Stealth trained character shine and save the party. I love how it makes stealth a group activity, with group rewards like surprise rounds and skipped combats. No more spotlight-stealing rogues sneaking off alone and getting ambushed, this is a great group check mechanic for a group game.

 

[Noumenon]

My problem with the "aid another" solutions is usually narrative. I can't imagine how one sneaky guy, with his boots of silent stepping and cloak of hide in plain sight, can do anything to help the court jester with jingling belt of sparklies and Perform (Song that Never Ends). I'd rather have some good dice rolls allowing me to say "When you're that Streetwise, you know the trick of 'sapping the jester and carrying him rolled up in a blanket.'"

 

[S'mon]

This is an amazing solution. It brings stealth into group play instead of being something only the rogue can do by himself, and it uses the skill challenge mechanic to turn stealth from a single pass-fail group check into a longer scenario with some tension.

Here's what I'd do for a four-person party:

• Skill challenge is four successes before three failures.
• Everyone has to roll Stealth.
• For anyone who fails stealth, the DM or players narrate a reason why (like Alphastream's knocked-over vase or S'mon's uncovered metal wristwatch).
• Anyone who passed their stealth (but no one else) can now use their other skills to try to earn another success by covering up for the stealth error. (for example, Acrobatics to catch the vase, Survival to scare up a flock of birds that covers the noise, Disguise to cover the wristwatch).
• The DC for this check is 6 higher than the original Stealth check (represents the fact that things have been botched and that ruleswise, we're substituting good trained skill checks for untrained Stealth checks).

In practice, if only one character out of four has a bad roll you can usually recover (you need one good roll before two bad ones), and if two characters fail you can still save with two good rolls in a row. Four good rolls or three bad ones complete the skill challenge on the first roll, so not every stealth check will turn into a series of checks.

I just love how much narration and tension this adds to stealth scenes. I love how it lets the Stealth trained character shine and save the party. I love how it makes stealth a group activity, with group rewards like surprise rounds and skipped combats. No more spotlight-stealing rogues sneaking off alone and getting ambushed, this is a great group check mechanic for a group game.

Thanks Noumenon - I think this 'failed Stealth unlocks Perception' is an example of a general good approach, that failed checks should unlock new options, & keep rolling until target # success/fails is reached. Eg on Saturday I ran a quick skill challenge, 3-before-3, to navigate through woods at night riding fast. Failed nature check = injured horse = Heal check to fix horse, fixed horse counted to the 3 successes to reach the target before dawn.

I think I'm actually starting to like skill challenges a little bit.

 

[jbear]

You're starting to go down the path of how I tend to handle failures, but I avoid 'lowest steath PC rolls' situation like the plague. It just don't like how it feels. I'm all for low stealt being penalised, but I don't like the whole onus placed on that one roll or always that one player with a dwarven cleric in chainmail with 8 dex ... what about the elven ranger who has trained and has 20 dex... surely they should share some of the weight?

So I do the following:

Group check = everyone has to roll as the situation engages everyone.

One PC can choose to lead; Hard DC: This will give the skilled PC a chance to shine. Success means s/he makes things easier for the rest of the group. Depending on the situation, or say the roll exceeds DC by 5+ then the rest of group rolls moderate DC with a +2 bonus or DC is lowered to easy. If the leader fails then the reverse is true, depending on the situation or degree of failure, -5 or more then the group rolls moderate DC or DC is increased to a Hard DC.

Failures of any kind in a group check matter, always. Player or DM describe what the failure has caused; inevitably something bad has happened or the situation has changed negatively in some way depending on the situation, involving the PC or PCs that failed the check taht needs to be resolved by the group immeadiately before they can carry on towards their goal.

Leaders that have lead successfully have the chance to counteract these 'lesser failures' by stepping in just in time, allowing a reroll if they make the check for them, but this will bear some sacrifice or effort on one part or the other or perhaps both depending on the situation. I usually set out the 'rules' of how a leader can counteract failure before to to use as a guide when and if the situation occurs.

All of this, it bears stressing, requires MUCH more than bland dice rolls, but descriptions, reactions and roleplay by all those involved in the dynamics of the changing situations.

So again the skilled PC can make up for the shortfallings of the clumsy dwarf, but the clumsy dwarf is still a factor when you creep into a dragon's lair, which I find is much more satisfying than hand waving it or putting all the responsability on the shoulders of the PC with stealth -2.