Growing up Strong...

[Terraism]

Alright, I've got one of those annoying questions for people, where I try to logically undermine one of the building blocks of D&D. Here goes...

Anyone have any reasonable arguments for why people can't increase their stats naturally? Yes, 3rd Edition has the 1 pt/4 levels rule, which helps a good deal, but that's not quite what I'm talking about. I'm mainly focusing on strength, here, by the way, because it's the most observable.

Say a guy's got a strength of 10. He starts working out - albeit, there's no modern gyms to use, but pushups, lifts, all that kinda thing still exist. Within about a month, of doing this a bit each day, he goes from being able to lift a 100 lbs to lifting a good 150. Technically, a 150 would be a 12 - but there's no way he's gone up the eight levels necessary for two stat points. Ok, then - I've been dwelling on this for a while, and anyone have any reasonable arguments - aside from "it's unbalancing," why this shouldn't be the case?

 

[boxstop7]

What's next? Stretching, daily calisthenics and regular vitamin/echinacea supplements?

You raise a great point. Unfortunately, I think the best answer lies in the balance issue it would create. Following that logic (which is completely grounded and legitimate) would mean that the fighter/rogue/barbarian/whatever could be gaining stat points after a few months of working out. But the wizard/cleric/whatever would have to study, or go to school, or become otherwise "educated" would have to wait more on the order of years to see equivalent stat increases. It's an interesting concept, and one that I think could work with a bit of tweaking. Maybe the INT/WIS-style increases are greater, reflecting the larger amount of time invested? Maybe there's a cap on how much stat points could be raised via these methods? Hmmm...lots of ideas...

~Box

 

[howandwhy99]

I'd say that your PC is working out, making tough decisions, running for his life and painting the town red. This would be why he' getting a bonus ability point every 4 rounds. If he wasn't working out for that strength point, you could just take a pass.

 

[LostSoul]

What about farmers lifting bales of hay and all that?

But then again, maybe they don't have the proper diet to keep their strength up. So I guess it could even out.

If you wanted to let PCs raise stats faster than normal, you'd have to change the CR and experience points they recieve.

 

[Terraism]

Yeah, I know there's a lot of problems with the idea - that's why I was posting it. It just seemed that, logically, it should be the case - but it's another example where I don't think the rules can support logic. I was hoping someone had some brilliant insights on the topic that would make it feasible.

 

[RangerWickett]

Thankfully, superheroes come to the rescue (as always). Using the rules from Four-Color to Fantasy: Superhero Toolkit, you can use very very mild versions of super strength and super-other-ability-scores to reflect people improving their bodies. If your GM lets you do it, all this means is that you adjust your character's Equivalent Character Level. Let me quickly go into more detail:

Superpowers cost Hero Points (HrPs), and 8 HrPs equals a level. Some of the simplest super powers are those that increase your ability scores, saving throws, speed, and AC. Every +2 increase to an ability score costs 3 HrPs, and you can increase any one saving throw by +1 for 1 HrP. These costs stack, so a +4 Strength costs 6 HrPs, and a +10 bonus to your Reflex save costs 10 HrPs. However, in any given 'super power,' you can spend no more than your level +3 HrPs.

So if you're a 1st level wizard who decides to buff up, you can increase your Str +2, Con +2, and Fort +2. This costs 8 HrPs, and is thus worth one level. So you're effectively a Wizard 1/Superhero 1. However, if you aren't using your Strength for much (since you're a spellcaster, not a warrior), your GM might let you have the Str increase more cheaply.

 

[boxstop7]

Well, I suppose one could disregard the typical "one point every 4 levels" rule completely. Institute your own system using the ideas you're presenting. Make it class-specific, or style-specific. For instance, a brute fighter would want to work out, thus increasing his/her STR and DEX scores. But the finesse fighter who practices his forms every night and studies his art might receive increases to INT (or WIS) and DEX. You could easily (I think) institute something like this into a campaign intended to be high-powered and reach high levels. That *might* help compensate for the potential imbalance. But I'd make the player roleplay it, declaring what he/she wants to do with the character and keeping a strict regimen once started. I think it mirrors "real life" a bit more that way. I could easily start working out tomorrow, and three months later be stronger. But if I quit the workout program, within the next three months that new muscle tissue might not be as strong as it had been when I was working out every other day. Let me think about this one some more. You've definitely got me intrigued, Terraism.

~Box

 

[JDragon]

One way to look at the system is as follows...

All races have a standard level based on genetics and enviorment. (thus the average stats given for any creature)

These stats are based on an adult version of the creature at the peak of its ability with out extreme circumstances. (IE farm boy Smith, no matter how much he works out can't get stronger than 14 because thats the most his body will do)

Along come the heros, they naturally have higher natural maxs (IE 3 - 18 + racial) but because of the extreme things they do (alot) they are able to push their body beyond the norm thus allowning a small amount of improvment every couple months to years depending on how wild and crazy the stuff they are doing is.

I don't know if this makes any sense, but let me know what you think and if it answers your ?.

JDragon

 

[Tonguez]

Strength would (I suppose) break down into four (or so) 'types' of strength which we can perhaps call

- Lifting power - increases weight to be lifted
- Striking power (Punching) - increases Damage bonus
- Bar Bending power increases ?????
- Jumping Power increases Climb and Jump Ranks

SO we can then take the Jumping Power as an example and create a skillbased system for 'Ability score training' eg Sam the Monk takes the 'Power skills' Jump 3 ranks, Ignore Hardness 2 ranks (use to break wooden boards) and Power Strike 2 ranks (increases damage) whereas Bob the Sumo takes Push 2 ranks (allowing him to Push an opponent back 5 feet) and Lift 2 ranks (allowing him to lift 150 rather than 100lbs)

PCs who do not train speciifc areas eventually gain an overall boost in all areas due to their extreme lifestyles