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GSL news.

Orcus said:
Lets not pretend there was no resistance and no struggle and that this was how it was supposed to work all along, cause it wasnt.

But what we had (and have) is a company with some real good people that hear us, that listen, that understand the benefits of open gaming and are able to convince the powers that be that open gaming is the right course.

Indeed.

Hurray Linae and Scott!

Indeed as well. As a company that has released almost all published material (over 99% I believe) as Open Game Content, we at Expeditious Retreat Press are pleased to see a more open license than expected.

Pending review of the GSL, you can expect XRP to produce 4e compatible material as part of our publishing goals.

Joseph Browning
Expeditious Retreat Press
 
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Orcus said:
Lets not get too much into revisionist history here. Some of the doomsaying was well founded. What was not well founded was the evil conspiracy nonsense.
Indeed. That's what I was referring to. Cautious skepticism is always fine. "WOTC IZ KILLING OPEN GAMING!!!1", not so much.
 

Gundark

Explorer
Orcus said:
Scott, nice work. You know how I feel about all of this. I am so glad you guys were able to bring this home. I know how hard it was and you and Linae and everyone at Wizards really deserves our thanks. I have always felt that open gaming was a rebirth of the golden age of D&D when Judges Guild and other third parties made products for D&D fans. I was pleased to see the return of that thinking for 3E and I am thrilled it will continue for 4E.

You guys have been such great caretakers of the game we all love. My hat is off to you, my friend.

Agreed. WotC gets a lot of unfair crap from the "fans". Sure they've made mistakes, I'm sure they'll be the first to say that, however they had been really great.
 


Orcus

First Post
andrew said:
Does the name change seem interesting to anyone else?



instead of a relatively generic d20 System License, we've now been given a highly recognized and branded Dungeons & Dragons system license. Maybe I'm reading too much into things....

It is awesome. Frankly, its what most of us wanted back for 3E.

I think Scott "got it" one day when many of us were discussing the reason why everyone made OGL products. Because the d20 STL was irrelevant. The d20 logo lost its value to publishers because it no longer meant D&D. Once that got watered down, the need to use it got less and less. Many of us mentioned that if allowed to use the D&D name and some type of logo that we would accept just about any restriction.
 

Thornir Alekeg

Albatross!
Khaalis said:
I can see the logic to what they have done. This allows them to control 2 distinctly different aspects of licensing.

Aspect 1) D&D 4E GSL
D&D Fantasy Products - the GSL will likely have a lot of controllers on the exact type of content to be allowed so that no "issues" can arise like the much maligned "Book of Erotic Fantasy" fiasco. WotC wants to be able to maintain a Brand Image (if not quality control). The GSL allows them to manage that specifically for the D&D Brand.

Aspect 2) D20 GSL
WotC made a good business decision here to allow the d20 core system stand as an open gaming format for systems other than D&D. This license will be applied to all products based on d20 OTHER than D&D such as Mutants and Masterminds, d20 Modern etc. This again will allow them to dictate some restriction on the type of content allowed, but allow them to word the license in a format that isn't specific to the D&D brand image.

Pretty straight forward actually when you think about it.
I'm wondering what this will really mean when it comes down to it.

My initial thought is that WotC will be staking a claim that all 4e d20 fantasy gaming will be D&D. 3rd party publishers can supplement it, but they cannot create their own fantasy setting game from it (ala Monte's Arcana Unearthed/Evolved). You can create a setting, but it will use the D&D system.

They are OK with the system being used for other genres, but they are not staking out that ground for themselves, so they are more open to alterations in the system to fit the genre.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Orcus said:
Lets not get too much into revisionist history here. Some of the doomsaying was well founded. What was not well founded was the evil conspiracy nonsense.

In response to Orcus:

jgbrowning said:

OK, now that is some serious spin there JG. You were one of the guys putting out evil conspiracy theory for the public to chew on all this time:

jgbrowning said:
If one had no intent to have any form of real open license to begin with, one would benefit the most by delaying that revelation as opposed to making it clear up front. Delaying the announcement places those you view as competitors in a state of waiting where actions cannot be determined and then marketed. This would allow you the most time to work on your own marketing and customer migration unhindered by the efforts of other companies. It also allows a greater time to unwind to the customer base how detrimental the loss of an open system is to them. It's like pulling the band-aid off slowly enough that it's not noticed. Customer choice is not benefited by a closed system when the previous system is open.

Also, by appearing to ask for "input" one gains information from one's competitor about potential products and lines of attack that one may have not thought of alone. By asking for "input" one continues the delaying time-line (composed of initial statements, Q&A sessions, private conversation, bureaucratic hold ups, unexpected legal changes, etc) before the revelation process, providing the best chance that competitors will delay making business decisions for the longest time possible. Done properly, one could not only increase your product's success, one can damage the business of the competitor. If done properly neither the consumer base or the competitor will be aware of what has occurred.

It's not revisionist history to say that the above speculation was a completely unfounded conspiracy theory that you put out there (whether you believed it yourself or not). And given a lot of us folks have had to deal with that sort of conspiracy theory being thrown around for weeks now, and the negativity it created, I think it's fair to say "Hey, it would be nice to see a few more mea culpas in here". Those who do make such apologies will look much better than those who pretend they were entirely right all along, or who remain silent.
 



Mistwell said:
OK, now that is some serious spin there JG. You were one of the guys putting out evil conspiracy theory for the public to chew on all this time

Mistwell, I know you personally dislike me and I personally dislike you.

Since you're utterly unaware of the relationships between myself, Suzi, Scott, and Linae, I'd like to see an apology from you.

Seeing as we're one of the few publishers invited by Scott and Linae to participate in the early section of 4e, and knowing that they have read my posted opinions about the subject from the other thread, I think your view of my "negativity" is not shared by those who actually make decisions about 4e and the GSL. Your post is as unnecessary as it is representative of your character. I don't appreciate attempted smears.

I think that's all I need to say at this venue. This is neither the proper time nor the proper place, which is why I'm utterly unsurprised by your actions.

joe b.
 
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