GSL news.

[pawsplay]

You do realize that accusing a company of a crime of this magnitude is libel when you have no legal evidence of it, right?

Evidence of what? "IP racketeering" is a metaphor. It's well known largish companies often issue C&D letters or sue people with little expectation of going to court, confident the little guy will fold.

If WotC wants to sue me for accusing them specifically of anti-competitive behavior, let them; as it stands it's my opinion. I have not accused them of any specific acts of which I do not have definite knowledge.

 

[Green Knight]

I am talking about anti-competitive business practices.

There's nothing "anti-competitive" about this, though. WotC is doing nothing to keep people from using the OGL. WotC is allowing people to use 4E. They're just saying you can't use them at the same. And even then, companies can choose to go back to the OGL if they so choose. And this has zero effect on other game companies like White Wolf, Palladium, GURPS, Hero System, etc.

 

[GRIMJIM]

You do realize that accusing a company of a crime of this magnitude is libel when you have no legal evidence of it, right?

IF this were software I think they'd be in deep trouble, at least in the EU, the analogy of an Operating System works fairly well. Imagine the furore and the lawyer frenzy if Microsoft had insisted that anyone producing software for Vista had to drop all support for previous editions and couldn't make XP compatible products any longer.

From previous discussions a few years back now though, RPG books are considered a subset of either publishing or game production and so even if they did completely monopolise the TTRPG market it wouldn't register with the powers that be.

 

[Orcus]

Would people please not get sidetracked by the whole copyright/antitrust stuff. None of that is remotely applicable here. I am a lawyer. Lets not get sidetracked.

 

[pawsplay]

IF this were software I think they'd be in deep trouble, at least in the EU, the analogy of an Operating System works fairly well. Imagine the furore and the lawyer frenzy if Microsoft had insisted that anyone producing software for Vista had to drop all support for previous editions and couldn't make XP compatible products any longer.

From previous discussions a few years back now though, RPG books are considered a subset of either publishing or game production and so even if they did completely monopolise the TTRPG market it wouldn't register with the powers that be.

Exactly; it might still be technically actionable, but there's no way the Dept of Justice is going to care.

 

[Mercule]

Evidence of what? "IP racketeering" is a metaphor. It's well known largish companies often issue C&D letters or sue people with little expectation of going to court, confident the little guy will fold.

It has a better chance of sticking than the "antitrust" idea does.

WotC just spent a truckload of time and money to get the GSL written. The "can't patent a game system" was part of the original rationale behind the OGL. WotC is well aware of it, as are their laywers.

Yes, there is always the chance of a judge with indigestion, but I'm pretty confident that the GSL is solid and not going to fall to anti-trust, or other pitfalls.

 

[pawsplay]

Would people please not get sidetracked by the whole copyright/antitrust stuff. None of that is remotely applicable here. I am a lawyer. Lets not get sidetracked.

Sidetracked? This is the train.

 

[Moonshade]

On a side note, I just read through this whole thread, and the tone of it changes dramatically somewhere in the middle to 3/4 of the way through, but I don't see any quotes or any reason for it. It goes from "Lets all be happy" to "GSL is gonna kill OGL, z0mg!!!". Were there posts deleted out of this thread, or is there another thread running that is cross contaminating this one, or what? I guess I'm just wondering how the mood shifted so dramatically. Did I miss something?

I'm guessing that at first people were happy to have GSL news after much waiting and speculation. Mood change is probably due to information discussed here. Some people who were originally happy with the confirmation that there will be a GSL were less happy with these unexpected restrictions and what their implications are for their favourite non-WOTC/D&D publishers and products.

 

[Sir Brennen]

But you really don't know, since we haven't conversed at length on the subject. I suspect that the same rules that prevented Microsoft from keeping other companies out of the Windows software game apply to WotC. "Antitrust" is a linguistic quirk of being an American; I am talking about anti-competitive business practices.

Except it isn't anti-competitive.

1) The whole point of the OGL/GSL is to actually give other companies the ability to produce material to support the game. Most people -and WotC - take the long view that this is healthy for the industry overall, even though it is technically still competition.

2) Companies are still free to produce 3.x material, even though it will compete against 4E for market space.

3) Companies will be able to produce 4E material (just not if they also produce 3.x)

4) Companies are still free to produce whatever non-d20 game they like and compete directly with WotC in the marketspace.

So, anti-trust, anti-competitive - neither apply. Even if WotC had said "Nobody but us can produce 4E material", it still wouldn't be anti-competitive. I mean, I haven't heard White Wolf called "anti-competitive", and they don't let anyone else publish game material based on their system/IP (with the exception of some very specific, short-term license agreements.)

Now, if WotC told retailers and distributors that they can only sell D&D products if they remove all White Wolf and Steve Jackson Games material off their shelves/catalogs, that would be something else entirely. But even completely ditching the GSL for 4E wouldn't even be close to that.

 

[Oldtimer]

Positive opionions tend not to create controversy, so after a few pages most of what is going on is stuff that do create controversy. I think it applies to almost every thread I have read on just about any internet message board. Human psychology at it's most typical

You don't need to be quite that cynical about it.

What happened is that the news about the new GSL rules leaked through from the (aptly named) OGL forum. That's when the proverbial excrement hit the fan.