GSL & SRD -- Comments, Questions, and Hopes

[Dias Ex Machina]

It is an unfortunate landscape in which we live.

There are those that say that with the release of 4ED, all previous versions are irrelevant. There are those that say that previous versions are dead. I even heard a friend say that all companies endorsing OGL will be out of business within two years (with the exception of maybe Paizo).

I am not going to be an alarmist. These critics are looking at 3.0/3.5 and the many versions of Warhammer as proof. None of them had previous editions that were OGL. I don't think OGL is dead but I do think that smaller companies like ours have to accept that if we don't squirm our way into the 4ED bandwagon, we might as well close up shop.

We don't have the clout to push our own OGL product. The GSL is limiting and there are some wording I would have preferred they didn't use (like not allowing us to use the name elf and dwarf how we wish seems almost petty) but it doesn't change the fact that for many of us, we are pushing against a mighty wind. Some large companies can hold their ground but us smaller ones might have no choice. With our primary product line, we discovered that we might be able to squeeze our way through because of the specifics of our setting. I also really doubt WOTC is going to be watchdogging every single company's every single product, ready to sue at slightest breach. Yes, we are taking a chance, but it is not one we want to take; it is one we may need to take.

 

[BryonD]

They then terminate your OGL license for ALL OGL products because you are in violation of section 5 of the OGL: Representation of Authority to Contribute.

Did you mean GSL in all of the above?
How does this put one in violation of the OGL?

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

Or they release 5e and have no 3PP support. At which time they terminate the GSL for everyone. Read 6.1 and 6.2 carefully.

My assumption for years now has been that if they wanted to kill the OGL, that they would do something just like this. They couldn't kill the OGL for 4E, but they might by the time 5E comes around.

 

[Jraynack]

However, the water's still nice over here in the 3.5 public pool.

I am sure we still have some 3.x product left in us, but for now we are trying to come up with ways to push onward in 4th without burning are bridges with 3.x - I think we are doing a few things that will allow us to produce for 4th without treading over our 3.x material (some product will have to go, however - along the d20 logo among 3.x products we will keep on the market.

 

[jmucchiello]

Did you mean GSL in all of the above?

No I didn't

How does this put one in violation of the OGL?

The GSL states you will no longer publish the GSL material using the OGL.
The GSL states that this clause survives termination of the GSL.
The OGL requires that you have the right to publish material using the OGL.
If you publish the former GSL material with the OGL you are doing so without authority.
That is a violation of the terms of S.5 of the OGL. According to S.13 of the OGL, you 30 days after notification of the violation to "cure" it. If you fail to remove the product, the OGL terminates.
Termination of the OGL means never using the OGL again for any and all products.

 

[BryonD]

No I didn't
The GSL states you will no longer publish the GSL material using the OGL.
The GSL states that this clause survives termination of the GSL.
The OGL requires that you have the right to publish material using the OGL.
If you publish the former GSL material with the OGL you are doing so without authority.
That is a violation of the terms of S.5 of the OGL. According to S.13 of the OGL, you 30 days after notification of the violation to "cure" it. If you fail to remove the product, the OGL terminates.
Termination of the OGL means never using the OGL again for any and all products.

F'n logic.

(rolls eyes at self)

Thanks.

I never really made much notice of that clause. I didn't strike me as it could be used as a kind of OGL suicide pact.

 

[jmucchiello]

F'n logic.

Well this is law we're talking about so maybe it doesn't apply.

The best part of 6.1 is a) Wizards "reasonable discretion" determines what products are part of a product line and b) part 6 survives the termination of the license. So I'm sure there are mines I haven't found involving products released after the GSL terminates and how that interacts with the OGL but my explodes whenever I try to nail down a scenario.

 

[Dias Ex Machina]

I have read through clause 6 like three times and nowhere do I read that you are forever tying your product line to 4ED. At the very worst, they can terminate your license. They will not seek to destroy your product line because you drop the license. They can terminate your agreement, disallowing you from ever putting out GSL products, but they cannot stop you from terminating it freely and changing back to another system. You can burn your bridge with WOTC but they cannot burn your franchise.

 

[Lizard]

I have read through clause 6 like three times and nowhere do I read that you are forever tying your product line to 4ED. At the very worst, they can terminate your license. They will not seek to destroy your product line because you drop the license. They can terminate your agreement, disallowing you from ever putting out GSL products, but they cannot stop you from terminating it freely and changing back to another system. You can burn your bridge with WOTC but they cannot burn your franchise.

Well, they CAN stop you from using the OGL. This isn't just D&D, but Runequest, Traveller, FUDGE, ACTION!, Spirit Of The Century, and probably others. You must basically then 'role your own' system (or, I guess, license BRP or Savage Worlds, to name two non-OGL systems with easy license terms).

Thing is, odds are good any setting built for 4e will 'fit' better with the D20 SRD than any other system, and they know it.

 

[jaldaen]

Thing is, odds are good any setting built for 4e will 'fit' better with the D20 SRD than any other system, and they know it.

I think most settings will have more open design space with the d20 SRD, however there are some setting concepts which I think would work quite well with 4e (especially cinematic high fantasy settings).

Also just talking from a design standpoint there are a lot of interesting rules in 4e which can be expanded upon (but not redefined) and I must admit that the rules are really easy to design for (besides the GSLs restrictions) the mechanics behind a lot of them are relatively easy to understand (in contrast to some of 3e's rules subsystems). I think this is probably an off shoot of making 4e easier to run for DMs, but as a designer anything that makes my job easier is good with me.

Note: This does not mean I'm not estatic/disappointed with the GSL, just that 4e's rules have something to offer to those willing to work within the system and its "References."