[GT] Indivudial XP Awards Mod - Account for CR

[Kirin'Tor]

Well, I love the idea of using CR increase instead of level adjustment. However, the Individual XP rules in the Gamemastering PDF cause a Level 6, CR 7 Hero to get the same amount XP as a Level 6, CR 6 Hero. (unless I'm reading them wrong)

I have a proposed modification to make the CR>CL Hero's gain XP slower, and (theoritically, for those who like Kobolds & Half-Orcs and agree that they have -CR adjustments) CR<CL Heros to gain extra:

Replace the standard:

300(X/p)*CL

With this:

300(X/p)*(CL^2/CR)

For the average hero (or at least human hero) where CR = CL, you can use the standard formula. But the XP award will be slightly decreased for a Hero who's CR is greater than his CL... And the amount "lost" to the CR adjustment will get less and less as both CL and CR increase together (10/10.5 < 5/5.5)

I'd love to hear opinions, especially from Wulf!!

 

[Kirin'Tor]

Well, I've tried and tested my new formula in some combinations I _hadn't_ thought of when I wrote it up, in in those cases it's way to harsh (when it shouldn't be at all)...

It works out (seemingly) OK if all the party is Xth Level, and a few party members are different in CR by +.25 or so.

Say the party is 4th level, and 3 char's a CL=4, and one is being built with mutations that give minor CR adjustments as well... so he's CL3, CR+1 (total CR4) ..

in that case, he's getting less than half the XP everyone else does...hardly fair.

So, I guess I'll throw my question to the masters: how can I adjust indivudial XP given to Hero's with +/- CR adjustments on top of level, without too harshly penalizing them?

 

[Andur]

You could try the xp table in the DMG, though it doesn't adapt well to large numbers of mooks. Or you could just "slide" the xp by 1% per difference in CR per character, always rounding down. That way the most difference will be a 19% penalty.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

I'll have to figure out how to fix the sheet. The problem is caused by using the "catch up" method from the DMG. I can fix it, I just have to sort through the math.

In the short term, all you have to do is multiply the base XP award (cell E18) by each character's character level to calculate the individual XP for each character.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Two things are necessary to fix it.

1) First, the "Total Party Levels" cell (C15) needs to sum all of the column above as well as the LA column. (SUM C3 : D14)

2) Second, the Individual XP calculations in column G currently just pull value E20 (Individual_XP_Award). To fix it, the cells in that column need to read:

Individual_XP_Award*C3/(C3+D3)

and so on for row 4, 5, etc.

I will try to post this fix fairly quickly.

 

[fuindordm]

What exactly are you trying to accomplish? In the default GT system, all characters advance at the same rate, even if they have different levels and/or CR; even for a party composed of 2 1st-level characters, one 2nd-level character with +1 CR, and one 5th level character, everyone will gain their next level at exactly the same time.

If you want the lower-level characters to play catch-up with the higher level ones, then you follow the GT alternative of pooling all their XP and dividing it equally among the players.

You get experience based on the difficulty of the encounter. For a party of mixed CR, the encounter might be deadly to the lower-level members of the party but pose little risk to the more powerful members; in this case, if the weaker characters got their skills well exercised, it might make sense to adopt the second method, giving them a boost.

Any added CR to any party member over and above their character level will just make the encounter easier, reducing the overall experience gained automatically.

Is your gripe that it doesn't seem fair that the other members of the party should suffer a loss of xp because one of them has been souped up with some extra CR?

I personally think that any excessive CR race should be statted out with monster levels--you don't play an ogre with one fighter level as a 1st level fighter, you play them as a 5th level character with 4 ogre HD (and the associated skills, saves, BAB, and feats) and one fighter level. This is something like ECL, but not really since they will have the HD appropriate to their level. Then they need more XP to gain a level, and pooling the party XP and dividing equally will slow the ogre's progression and allow the weaker members to catch up.

For races with only +1 CR or less, there's no need to go so far as to assign them a monster/humanoid HD and make them truly second level; if the race is well constructed then they should have disadvantages that don't make them a no-brainer choice for PCs (e.g. Wheel of Time's Ogier, who need to return to their steddings periodically or suffer penalties). In such cases I see no need to correct their XP awards in any fashion; the party as a whole will advance slightly more slowly (or to put in another way, can handle slightly tougher encounters) but if you're not adding HD to the +1 CR PC then these encounters will still be serious threats and they shouldn't be penalized.

Or if they should, then it's probably not worth the effort.

Ben

 

[Kirin'Tor]

Well, my intended change _isn't_ for the 'excessive CR' races, but for the PHB races as presented at the end of the creature creation chapter of GT.

If using the individual XP chapter, and _not_ just 'ignoring' the cr adjustments, then one of two (seemingly wrong) things happens:

Individual XP: +CR (Dwarf, for Example) Characters Recieve _more_ XP than Humans
Group Divide XP: All characters recieve less XP overall, Dwarves and Humans get the same XP.

What I'd like to see (and tried to create) was a modification to the Individual XP System, where by creatures with CR above that of the party (but not a whole level's worth) get slightly less XP (somehow proportional to their CR increase).

Also, Wulf - where does one who's already purchased a GT PDF/Excel product get the updates you make?

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

What I'd like to see (and tried to create) was a modification to the Individual XP System, where by creatures with CR above that of the party (but not a whole level's worth) get slightly less XP (somehow proportional to their CR increase).

I've given you the answer above-- I hate to say it, no offense to fuindor, who is correct that "by the book" GT characters can never "catch up"-- but ignore anything else said in this thread. It's complicating the issue.

I goofed on the spreadsheet because I didn't take LA into account, nothing more needs to be said.

I do believe that allowing players to catch up is the right way to go, and the spreadsheet will reflect that.

Also, Wulf - where does one who's already purchased a GT PDF/Excel product get the updates you make?

When I post the update to RPGnow, I can send out an email that advises anyone who's ever bought the product that the update is available. Then you just go grab it for free. You get free updates for life at RPGnow. (That's hot.)

However, I have updated this file fairly recently, and I don't want to keep updating on a regular basis. If you can bear the wait, I'd prefer to space out the updates to give more time for comments to come in.

You can always email me privately for an update if you happen to be the only one asking for it at the moment. (But I'll paint my ass blue if Kirin'Tor's not capable of opening the Excel file, protection be damned, and making that fix I outline above. He's got skillz.)

Wulf

 

[Kirin'Tor]

Oh, Ok...I understand. I was reading the PDF wrong _and_ the spread sheet was confusing me.

Well, I wouldn't say skillz with a Z, but (if it's OK by you) I'll go make the correction now (protection be damned ;-)) and just wait for the next update