cbwjm
Legend
I still think bladesingers should have received war magic at some point, even if it replaced their extra attack feature.
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D&D 5E [GUIDE] NADRIGOL's Melee Bladesinger Guide
- Thread starter NADRIGOL
- Start date
Rofel Wodring
Explorer
Couple of other guide suggestions:
Comprehend Languages should be rated a little higher. You won't need it when you're first starting out, but as you get higher in level and come across more exotic locales and critters it becomes a huge convenience.
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere is kind of 'eh' by itself (the kinds of enemies you'd really want to use it on, you can't or they have countermeasures), but it's outright amazing as part of a Contingency. I had that thing go off in a contingency when I was about to get swarmed by yetis and it saved my life.
Leomund's Secret Chest: It's not good at all when you get it. 5,000 gp is a prohibitive cost. However, at level 11+ or so, you'll be swimming in money. Note two additional things:
Fly should be rated Sky Blue, IMO, once you get access to 5th and 6th level spell slots. It's a, and without exaggeration, literal lifesaver when you or more pertinently the party needs it.
Glyph of Warding should be dual-rated, or even triple-rated. RAW you can use it to get concentration-free buffs. The issue is mainly getting spells that are legal to use with Glyph of Warding that are nonetheless long-lasting enough to make it worth it. The casting time is unfortunately an issue unless you're being creative with it, such as Demiplane shenanigans or using it during the 'what is the wizard doing this long rest?' phase.
Comprehend Languages should be rated a little higher. You won't need it when you're first starting out, but as you get higher in level and come across more exotic locales and critters it becomes a huge convenience.
Otiluke's Resilient Sphere is kind of 'eh' by itself (the kinds of enemies you'd really want to use it on, you can't or they have countermeasures), but it's outright amazing as part of a Contingency. I had that thing go off in a contingency when I was about to get swarmed by yetis and it saved my life.
Leomund's Secret Chest: It's not good at all when you get it. 5,000 gp is a prohibitive cost. However, at level 11+ or so, you'll be swimming in money. Note two additional things:
- The 'Tiny' size in 5E D&D does not have a lower limit to it, unlike 3E D&D. The replica chest can be made small enough to be perfect for smuggling, depending on your imagination and how much you want to gross out the DM. Get something acid-proof, is all I'm saying.
- The Secret Chest itself is not an extradimensional space! Meaning that you can use it to squirrel away bags of holding and haversacks.
Fly should be rated Sky Blue, IMO, once you get access to 5th and 6th level spell slots. It's a, and without exaggeration, literal lifesaver when you or more pertinently the party needs it.
Glyph of Warding should be dual-rated, or even triple-rated. RAW you can use it to get concentration-free buffs. The issue is mainly getting spells that are legal to use with Glyph of Warding that are nonetheless long-lasting enough to make it worth it. The casting time is unfortunately an issue unless you're being creative with it, such as Demiplane shenanigans or using it during the 'what is the wizard doing this long rest?' phase.
Cael Immortalis
First Post
Has anyone got any in-game experience as a Bladesinging Monk with the Mobility Feat?
I'm thinking of taking this path for a Wood Elven Bladesinger, that and/or rogue.
In theory unarmoured defence and deflect arrows should save on spell slots for Mage Armour/Shield and the extra bonus action attack with Dex to Damage (and later Int) from Martial Arts is similar to the two-weapon fighting benefit that you'd get from a Fighting Style dip.
At will damage should be ok and combined with soft control if Booming Blade is used (especially with the Mobility feat) and the combination of three (or more, with Dash/Longstrider/Haste/More monk levels) boosts to movement and Disengage from Step of the Wind or the Mobility feat should allow short range spells such as Thunderwave to be cast in the right spot for maximum effect.
However, that's just theory, wondering if anyone has tried or seen this tried at the table?
I'm thinking of taking this path for a Wood Elven Bladesinger, that and/or rogue.
In theory unarmoured defence and deflect arrows should save on spell slots for Mage Armour/Shield and the extra bonus action attack with Dex to Damage (and later Int) from Martial Arts is similar to the two-weapon fighting benefit that you'd get from a Fighting Style dip.
At will damage should be ok and combined with soft control if Booming Blade is used (especially with the Mobility feat) and the combination of three (or more, with Dash/Longstrider/Haste/More monk levels) boosts to movement and Disengage from Step of the Wind or the Mobility feat should allow short range spells such as Thunderwave to be cast in the right spot for maximum effect.
However, that's just theory, wondering if anyone has tried or seen this tried at the table?
SpoCk0nd0pe
First Post
Thank you for the guide!
I think the Arcane Trickster looks very favourable regarding bladesinger math. Sneak attack stacks beautifully with SCAG cantrips and is a much better option imho then adding fighter. More spells and cantrips are always welcome.
The Paladin's smite works much better with some sorcerer or warlock gish build. Quickened Greenflame Blade as firedragon sorcerer comes to mind. Adding 13 str and 13 cha to an already MAD bladesinger that really needs to max int and dex seems suboptimal. Burst damage is not going to be one of the bladesingers strengths. But it doesn't need to be, you have so much other stuff going. If you really want to do it, I would suggest starting as paladin to cheese out of the requirement.
I think the Arcane Trickster looks very favourable regarding bladesinger math. Sneak attack stacks beautifully with SCAG cantrips and is a much better option imho then adding fighter. More spells and cantrips are always welcome.
The Paladin's smite works much better with some sorcerer or warlock gish build. Quickened Greenflame Blade as firedragon sorcerer comes to mind. Adding 13 str and 13 cha to an already MAD bladesinger that really needs to max int and dex seems suboptimal. Burst damage is not going to be one of the bladesingers strengths. But it doesn't need to be, you have so much other stuff going. If you really want to do it, I would suggest starting as paladin to cheese out of the requirement.
Rofel Wodring
Explorer
I've built a half-elf Paladin 2 / Bladesinger X for Adventurer's League (the Paladin levels were taken fairly late) that uses Gauntlets of Ogre Power on their 8 STR to compensate for the multiclass requirements. A couple of observations:
Paladin 2 works VERY well, especially in the 'two encounters a day, max' environment of that game. Your damage will spike like crazy. Having Bless and Shield of Faith in your corner pocket is also a big boon when you need to conserve spells but still kick ass.
I've often toyed with the idea of completely ditching Bladesinging and just running around in heavy armor and a great weapon and not ever Bladesinging. I ended up not doing that because I would've had to take the paladin levels first for armor proficiency and I was well outside the level 5 rebuild limit when I got the Gauntlets -- not to mention that I'd lose out on concentration and AC, which is a legit big deal with your hit points.
I don't think it's possible to make a viable Paladin / Bladesinger if you're using standard point-buy and don't have access to magic items.
Honestly, though, for that particular Bladesinger character I think they're actually weaker than my other full Bladesinger character (I may have a problem). Spell access, especially in the short workdays of the Adventurer's League/Published Adventure Books, is a much bigger deal for your DPR than passive class features -- even one as strong as Smite. Early access Animate Objects and Greater Invis and Contingency are just straight-up more impressive. And when I get simulacrulum in two levels it'll be even moreso. I think the only two levels where I think the Paladin 2 / Bladesinger X is better than the Bladesinger X+2 would be total character levels 4 and 20.
And of course there's also the problem that even with my 8 STR cheat, I can still only get Constitution to 12-13. It's a pretty huge deal since magical items are fairly plentiful in AL (and I'm already sparing an attunement slot for the Gauntlets, though if I ever come across one of the better belts it's a wash because they're a really big DPR boost in of itself) and being out on hit points bites you hard when a critical hit or a couple of fireballs come flying your way.
By contrast, my single-classed Bladesinger started out as a high-elf and had a stat array of 8 17 15 16 8 8. Level 4 ASI went into +1 DEX and +1 CON. The character at level 11 would have 22 more hit points and +2 more to CON saves and concentration saves, which is a huge deal DPR boost aside.
Paladin 2 works VERY well, especially in the 'two encounters a day, max' environment of that game. Your damage will spike like crazy. Having Bless and Shield of Faith in your corner pocket is also a big boon when you need to conserve spells but still kick ass.
I've often toyed with the idea of completely ditching Bladesinging and just running around in heavy armor and a great weapon and not ever Bladesinging. I ended up not doing that because I would've had to take the paladin levels first for armor proficiency and I was well outside the level 5 rebuild limit when I got the Gauntlets -- not to mention that I'd lose out on concentration and AC, which is a legit big deal with your hit points.
I don't think it's possible to make a viable Paladin / Bladesinger if you're using standard point-buy and don't have access to magic items.
Honestly, though, for that particular Bladesinger character I think they're actually weaker than my other full Bladesinger character (I may have a problem). Spell access, especially in the short workdays of the Adventurer's League/Published Adventure Books, is a much bigger deal for your DPR than passive class features -- even one as strong as Smite. Early access Animate Objects and Greater Invis and Contingency are just straight-up more impressive. And when I get simulacrulum in two levels it'll be even moreso. I think the only two levels where I think the Paladin 2 / Bladesinger X is better than the Bladesinger X+2 would be total character levels 4 and 20.
And of course there's also the problem that even with my 8 STR cheat, I can still only get Constitution to 12-13. It's a pretty huge deal since magical items are fairly plentiful in AL (and I'm already sparing an attunement slot for the Gauntlets, though if I ever come across one of the better belts it's a wash because they're a really big DPR boost in of itself) and being out on hit points bites you hard when a critical hit or a couple of fireballs come flying your way.
By contrast, my single-classed Bladesinger started out as a high-elf and had a stat array of 8 17 15 16 8 8. Level 4 ASI went into +1 DEX and +1 CON. The character at level 11 would have 22 more hit points and +2 more to CON saves and concentration saves, which is a huge deal DPR boost aside.
Last edited:
SansFinalGuardian
First Post
I know you sorta bash the EK 18/BS 2, but what about a more even split? Eg. 9/11, 10/10, 11/9.
Rofel Wodring
Explorer
The thing about a more even split is that there's the question of why you're going with Bladesinger over Abjurer. This is especially true if you're playing in Adventurer's League and you can expect access to magical armor and/or shields, closing the gap on the BS's big advantage: AC. Abjurer gives you more hit points, an awesome class feature rather than a redundant one, and the option to use two-handed weapons which is the big thing for your damage boosts.
Rofel Wodring
Explorer
Speaking of which, I do have a theoretical build in mind for the Bladesinger that involves completely ignoring Bladesong.
You're a Fighter or Paladin or Cleric 1 (probably Fighter) / Bladesinger X. You suit up in Heavy Armor and use a Maul or Greatsword while putting Dexterity in the backseat and focusing on Strength and Intelligence. You do lose out on Bladesong and 1-3 points of AC, depending on item drops. However, you still get Extra Attack, Song of Victory, and Song of Defense with all of the other standard wizard goodies, which goes great with using a two-handed weapon.
I'm not a huge fan of the idea, even in adventurer's league, because DEX is a much more useful stat than STR and I think that building the bladesinger towards melee damage isn't the smartest idea long-term. However, between Greater Invis and/or Haste and Song of Victory (let alone real cheats like Animate Objects or Simulacrum) your damage will be in sight of the Eldritch Knight for most of the game.
You're a Fighter or Paladin or Cleric 1 (probably Fighter) / Bladesinger X. You suit up in Heavy Armor and use a Maul or Greatsword while putting Dexterity in the backseat and focusing on Strength and Intelligence. You do lose out on Bladesong and 1-3 points of AC, depending on item drops. However, you still get Extra Attack, Song of Victory, and Song of Defense with all of the other standard wizard goodies, which goes great with using a two-handed weapon.
I'm not a huge fan of the idea, even in adventurer's league, because DEX is a much more useful stat than STR and I think that building the bladesinger towards melee damage isn't the smartest idea long-term. However, between Greater Invis and/or Haste and Song of Victory (let alone real cheats like Animate Objects or Simulacrum) your damage will be in sight of the Eldritch Knight for most of the game.
But for Song of Victory and Song of Defense you need to have Bladesong active, thus you can't use medium/heavy armor...
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Rofel Wodring
Explorer
Whoops. So much for that idea, then.
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