[GUIDE] The Art of Battleraging

[FrogReaver]

I've played barbarians before. I've played paladins and fighters too. Compared to fighters and paladins they lack some offensive oomph due to having no burst capabilities. I highly recommend battlemaster 3-4 on any barbarian build just so you can get some damage burst with action surge. Likewise, if you use GWM, precision attack significantly helps increase your effective hit chance high enough (about +3ish) so that the accuracy penality of the -5/+10 is mostly mitigated. You can get those abilities much earlier than level 20.

At level 20 the pure barbarian could even be better. But even if that's the case, if the barbarian/fighter is better for a decent chunk of levels leading up to level 20 then I'd gladly sacrifice a little effectiveness at level 20 for the earlier effectiveness.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I don´t like that battlerager armor is actually lowering your AC if your constitution is 20 or even 24...
But on the other hand, you will most probably find a way to have it magical at that time keeping up with it.

You probably start with 15 Con (17 Str, Dex 14) and raise str first to 20. So we are speaking of level 19 and 20 when your con bonus finally supersedes +4. So practically never. If you are going for feats on top, you will probably never see that issue.

 

[RogueJK]

You probably start with 15 Con (17 Str, Dex 14) and raise str first to 20. So we are speaking of level 19 and 20 when your con bonus finally supersedes +4. So practically never.

With a Mountain Dwarf and the Standard Array, going 17 STR, 14 DEX, and 15 CON, you could be at 20 STR and 20 CON by Level 16. (+1 STR/CON, +2 STR, +2 CON, +2 CON.)

Using Point Buy, a Mountain Dwarf could start with 17 STR, 14 DEX, 17 CON. That's 20 STR and 20 CON by Level 12. (+1 STR/CON, +2 STR, +2 CON.)

You could be at 20 STR and 20 CON sooner than 12 if you roll for stats, and roll well.

 

[Markh3rd]

You can already get advantage on all attacks with Reckless Attack. Between your resistance to B/P/S and the temp HPs you gain every round, the fact that a few more enemy attacks hit you in a round isn't a big deal. You need to use Reckless Attack to get those bonus tHPs every round, so you *already* have Advantage doing what you're going to do anyway.

Now, you may want to grapple because it helps your allies, but it doesn't grant you personally anything you shouldn't already have. And since you need a hand free to do a grapple you are depowering yourself holding a 1H weapon and no shield to do so. The 3 damage you do when initiating a grapple is lost in the +X rage damage the weapon attack would have brought.

When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use).

Since it’s a special melee attack, using strength,the rage bonus damage should apply. Spiked armor is considered a weapon, as well as armor.

While you are wearing spiked armor and are raging, you can use a bonus action to make one melee weapon attack with your armor spikes against a target within 5 feet of you.

 

[RogueJK]

Since it’s a special melee attack, using strength,the rage bonus damage should apply.

Note that per the wording of Rage, the bonus damage applies to a "melee weapon attack using Strength".

A Grapple is a special melee attack. But it is not a melee weapon attack.

 

[Markh3rd]

Note that per the wording of Rage, the bonus damage applies to a "melee weapon attack using Strength".

A Grapple is a special melee attack. But it is not a melee weapon attack.

Read my post again, I added clarification from the rules.

 

[RogueJK]

When wearing Spiked Armor, the spikes inflict the 3 points of bonus damage as part of your Battlerager class feature upon a successful Grapple. But the spikes don't make the Grapple attempt a "melee weapon attack".

Only if you make specifically a melee weapon attack with the spikes as a Bonus Action would the extra Rage damage then apply.


This is like saying that all Grapples are "melee weapon attacks" because they're initiated with a free hand, and all creatures' punches with a free hand count as melee weapon attacks per the Sage Advice Compendium, therefore all Barbarians inflict Rage damage every time they grapple someone with their hand.

But that is not the case. Just because a hand can be used at times to make a melee weapon attack (with an unarmed strike) doesn't mean all types of melee attacks (including grapples) with that hand are specifically melee weapon attacks. Same with armor spikes.


RAW, Grapples are called out as being specifically special melee attacks, but not specifically melee weapon attacks. Apples and oranges. They're both fruit (melee attacks), but two separate and distinct types.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

With a Mountain Dwarf and the Standard Array, going 17 STR, 14 DEX, and 15 CON, you could be at 20 STR and 20 CON by Level 16. (+1 STR/CON, +2 STR, +2 CON, +2 CON.)

Using Point Buy, a Mountain Dwarf could start with 17 STR, 14 DEX, 17 CON. That's 20 STR and 20 CON by Level 12. (+1 STR/CON, +2 STR, +2 CON.)

You could be at 20 STR and 20 CON sooner than 12 if you roll for stats, and roll well.

Yes. I somehow miscalculated it... bit 16 or 19... no big difference and you might stiĺ take a feat.

 

[Markh3rd]

Tell this guy his grapple isn't a weapon, lol.

 

[Blue]

When you want to grab a creature or wrestle with it, you can use the Attack action to make a special melee attack, a grapple. Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack roll: a Strength (Athletics) check contested by the target's Strength (Athletics) or Dexterity (Acrobatics) check (the target chooses the ability to use).

Since it’s a special melee attack, using strength,the rage bonus damage should apply. Spiked armor is considered a weapon, as well as armor.

While you are wearing spiked armor and are raging, you can use a bonus action to make one melee weapon attack with your armor spikes against a target within 5 feet of you.

Except that the rage damage is not on an attack. It's on a "melee weapon attack using Strength". A grapple, while an attack, is not a melee weapon attack. So you don't add the rage damage to your grapple attack.

And, that really ignores that weapon damage size between a one handed and two handed weapon anyway.

Your comment about being able to make a spiked armor attack as a bonus action is just that, a bonus action attack. It explicitly, as a bonus action, is not part of "when you yous the Attack action to grapple...", since you can't take an Attack action with a bonus action.