Guild of Mordenkainen Nukers.

[a-d]

I'm in a game right now where I plan to enchant a small jewel with dozens of low level permanent versions of spells and was looking for a way to protect it from the magic item destroyer "Mordenkainen's Disjunction." However I'd never actually looked up the spell and found that to be rather idiotic.

While searching for a description I came across this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-le...-do-you-handle-mordenkainens-disjunction.html

It had an interesting idea of carrying around an artifact so that anyone casting the item killer on the party would stand a chance of permanently losing all spell casting ability.
Sounded good.

But then I realized that if they put the spell onto a scroll and had a non-spellcasting character use it, and the artifact's retribution didn't follow the scroll's magical aura back to it's original creator...

Can you just see a guild of people who have agreed to never take any spellcasting classes working with wizards who craft scrolls for them to use?

An adventuring party is giving you trouble? For a fee, we'll send an agent to blast them back to standard equipment.

You're about to wage war on a neighboring kingdom's fortress? For a larger fee we'll do the same to them.

Elminster's tower? ...Okay. This is going to be a big fee. BIG. But you pay it, you got it.

Would it work?

 

[Dandu]

A deity is smart enough to know if you cast Disjunction off of a scroll.

 

[a-d]

So there would only be no potential backlash if if it was cast off of a scroll made by a wizard now long dead?

Doable, but definitely ups the fee.

Ah, and I found a description of the spell. Don't know if it's correct but it's better than I had.
http://www.alchar.org/~aedil/Campaign/WizardSpells/Mordenkainens_Disjunction.html

 

[Greenfield]

Well, here's the one from the SRD:

Mage’s Disjunction
Abjuration
Level: Magic 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Area: All magical effects and magic items within a 40-ft.-radius burst
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: No
All magical effects and magic items within the radius of the spell, except for those that you carry or touch, are disjoined. That is, spells and spell-like effects are separated into their individual components (ending the effect as a dispel magic spell does), and each permanent magic item must make a successful Will save or be turned into a normal item. An item in a creature’s possession uses its own Will save bonus or its possessor’s Will save bonus, whichever is higher.
You also have a 1% chance per caster level of destroying an antimagic field. If the antimagic field survives the disjunction, no items within it are disjoined. Even artifacts are subject to disjunction, though there is only a 1% chance per caster level of actually affecting such powerful items. Additionally, if an artifact is destroyed, you must make a DC 25 Will save or permanently lose all spellcasting abilities. (These abilities cannot be recovered by mortal magic, not even miracle or wish.)
Note: Destroying artifacts is a dangerous business, and it is 95% likely to attract the attention of some powerful being who has an interest in or connection with the device.

The key differences involve the range, and the type of Save involved. Since it isn't clear which edition you're talking about, my 3.5 version may be the one in error.

In all editions though, the backlash is instant and reflexive, unthinking. It comes from the spell itself, and has no intelligence to track down other responsible parties. Note that for a non-caster using a scroll, they have to have a pretty good Use Magic Device skill, since they're trying to emulate a 17th Level Wizard, minimum, and more is better.

The Will save for items would be a 22, presuming a scroll, since such items use the minimum Ability bonus needed to cast the spell, not the actual ability of the author or the person using the scroll. A 22 isn't that hard for a lot of people when you're talking about that kind of level range.

In the case of a non-caster, I'd have the backlash take out the non-caster's UMD skill, permanently, and trash any items they had that gave a skill boost. They really aren't going to be casting any spells again.

*Then* I'd have an angry entity tracking down both the author and user of that scroll.

 

[a-d]

Potential Q-like being trying...I take that back. Probably not Q level being, but still a high powered entity tracking down the person who used the scroll.
As for the scroll's creator, they're long dead. Wouldn't that protect them?

Sounds like every agent would have to be willing to accept the risk that any assignment might take them out as well.
Another hike upwards in price.

And trashing a persons UMD wouldn't be good either. Hmmm...

Ah hah. A mine.
Triggered by the target and created by a long dead artificer or anyone with the appropriate creation feat.
Could even use a spell launcher with timer trigger to allow them to strike at range against fortifications.

Only real threat to such a thing seems to be the powerful being who'd come to the guild to complain.
I'll admit I'm not seeing a way around this problem.

Hah. Imagine if the rules had it so the member of the party who triggered the trap was the one hit by the penalty for destroying an artifact.

 

[akbearfoot]

Disjunction is too powerful to not be an epic spell, alas...

That's what contingency and Limited Wish/Wish/Miracle were made for.

Or a Wish to switch positions with the next creature that casts Disjunction on you or that they also be affected by their own spell. Or that you and your allies all be transported out of the area of affect BEFORE the disjunction takes affect. Or just wish to negate the next Disjunction that affects your party. Well worth the 25,000 gold heh. A limited wish could probably accomplish some of these option too.

As far as scrolls go...A. Its Risky B. DC 34 and 37 UMD check required in succession. C. VERY expensive. Not to mention the whole eternal blood feud you would spawn with any PC you hit with a disjunction. heh

 

[Nikosandros]

So there would only be no potential backlash if if it was cast off of a scroll made by a wizard now long dead?

Doable, but definitely ups the fee.

Ah, and I found a description of the spell. Don't know if it's correct but it's better than I had.
Wizard Spells - Mordenkainen's Disjunction

Which edition are you playing? The version that you linked is for AD&D 2nd Edition. The one that was posted later in the thread is for 3rd Edition.

 

[a-d]

3.5
We're only level two but I've been intending to make magic items and after hearing about this spell I went looking for methods to evade or block it. That led me to the previous thread, it's method for making users of the spell sorry, and finally brought up this way to get around that defense.

Was irritating to discover that if this works that a party could be hit anytime anywhere with no penalty except the powerful entity taking revenge. If they would.

If this works I'll probably need some sort of stealth construct traveling behind the group with an armory attached to it.

 

[JohnRL]

3.5
We're only level two but ... (snip)
If this works I'll probably need some sort of stealth construct traveling behind the group with an armory attached to it.

With metagaming like this, I'm not sure if your campaign (or your DM) will survive by the time your PC reaches 5th level.
My advice? Don't worry about stuff that is so far into the future. Concentrate on getting to 3rd level, and maybe plan for 4th. By the time you are in a position to worry about level 9 spells affecting artifacts and disjoining archmages, you may have forgotten about this thread anyway.

Besides, if I've read the spell description right, you've only got a small chance of disjoining an artifact and therefore causing a backlash on the caster. Getting hold of the artifact won't be easy either - it should take at least one adventure, maybe a big chunk of the campaign, to get hold of a proper artifact. Going up against a powerful wizard, you could provoke him into casting a Disjunction on you while you've got the Axe of the Dwarvish Lords in your party. He rolls a high number, fails to disjoin the artifact, but successfully disjoins at least half the magic items in the party. Way to go!!