Guilds, Economics, Ships, Trade by Land and Sea!

[widderslainte]

Greetings!

How developed of an economy do you use in your games? Have you worked out books of detail on coinage systems, exchange rates, resources, detailed trade relationships, or is it just sort of handwaved?

I'm working on it! Being the Aria freak that I am, I'd certainly pay for a book that would develop that sort stuff just to flesh out my campaign. I don't know how much it would be reflected in "everyday adventuring", but for certain plots. Heck, I would kill just for a comprehensive import/export list for different type of communities and environments.

 

[jgbrowning]

A Magical Medieval Society:Western Europe

We'll, we're in the final editing stages of our new book, A Magical Medieval Society:Western Europe and we have an economic system you guys might be interested in.

We realized that if you actually attempt to mimic a fully functioning medieval economy you'll only end up killing yourself , so we have a simulator.

I idea is that every item has a purchace DC. This is the DC required to purchase the item at the cost listed in the PHB or DMG. Every area modifies the DC accordingly, southern france (wine rich area) for instance has lower DCs than Finland (wine poor area) on wine products.

There are several modifiers the DM and PC and implement to the system to create an "illusion" of a fully functional economic system. If a DM wanted to they could map out the various blanket DCs for items in their cities/kingdoms based upon what trade routes they want.

Its simple (and elegant), and i think it works well enough to satisfy all but the most economically hard-core.

Joe B.
Expeditious Retreat Press

 

[Mallus]

Greeting back at 'ya, SHARK...

Intriguing topic. I'm embarrassed to say I handwave my economics.

Embarrassed because issues of campaign "flavor" aside, a robust, detailed ecomomic/merchantile system provides the underpinnings of more conflict than you can shake a stick at. Knowing who trades what to whom for how many golden sequins is tantamount to knowing who will go to war with with whom with how much blood spilled.

Trade drives wars. Between rival trade houses or rival nations. Having a well-thought out trade system is a powerful plot-generating device. Providing a DM with more reasons for conflict than "Side A is good, side B is evil". Not that there's anything wrong with that...

Hmmm, sorry if I come off sounding like a textbook undergrad Marxist.

 

[David Argall]

wing it

The more "real" we make things the better, but we don't really need to worry about economics here. The PCs are to get rich from adventuring. The honest economic jobs around them are to be chump change. [Of course you don't get killed and eaten, or vice-versa, with such jobs, but what adventurer worries about such little details?] So the adventurer is pretty ignorant of these activities and you set prices and such according to game utility, not to economic fact.

Now the PCs do at times want to invest in various businesses. So you will eventually need to create some details, but even then, it is possible to simulate a month of business with a single die-roll.

Go ahead and develop this, but don't make it a high priority.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Something I always found interesting was road builders. There just was not too many of them and those that did build them controlled trade completely.

I try to keep things simple, goods are much the same from different regions; food, textile, natural (wood, furs, minerals, such), and manufactured. Some areas have more than the other and trade routes form. I give a rank, 0 being no trade, + being trade business, the higher the + is a surplus of the product, minus would be a need for the product. If the total is a plus, the city is making money, if a minus not.

Sample would be dwarf city: Food -2, Textile 0, natural -1, manufacture +5 (metal work). In this sample overall rank is +2, this city is doing well. People are coming and going, business is brisk, most goods that leave the city are metal work, things like swords, armor, but what is going into the city is food, some things like wood and furs. In the city you would find that most jobs are metal workers and miners of iron, tin, copper.

It is my own little system and it leaves a lot open.

 

[Silver Moon]

How developed of an economy do you use in your games? Have you worked out books of detail on coinage systems, exchange rates, resources, detailed trade relationships, or is it just sort of handwaved? I think that having a fairly detailed section on guilds and economics can be very useful.

As some above posters have mentioned, most players could really care less about the world's economy. However, I happen to have an MBA from a top business school, and have tried to make logical economics part of our campaign world.

Coinage played a key part of a recent module. Our campaign is set on a small continent that is a confederacy of 9 autonomous Lordholdings, who elect an overall ruler every 15 years. One duty of the ruler is to issue a uniform currency for the continent. There was a counterfeiting scheme required the new ruler to withdraw all old coinage, check the old coins for authenticity, and then exchange them for new coinage (with a small processing fee).

Other key businesses and guilds are represented by the closest major city to the playing character's base, where sections of the city are designated for different types of businesses. The current module that I am running is set in this city, and the economics should factor into a lot of subplots.

 

[Hand of Evil]

Guilds - to me they control product, making products uniformed from location to location. They are trained to set values onto a product and because they pass information set standards and measures for it. They are also helpful in moving items to areas that are going to get the best deal. They work with the guild members.

Trading companys - they are the movers working with the guilds and sometimes owned by the guilds. They take the high risk but price in bulk, cargo to X not what price the cargo is worth.

Merchants - these are the guys that buy and sell, many work with guilds and sell goods. They purchase from the guilds in most cases but will also buy from non-guild members.

You have a lot guilds or guild companies in a game if yoou use them.

I deal with it from a mini-bottle view, South Carolina uses mini-bottles in bars (only state that serves them). The reason is that by law the drinker is entitled to 1.5 oz for price paid, that is set. Each drink is taxable. So by using mini-bottles the state is making sure you get what you are paying for and they get their taxes! I see guilds doing the same.

 

[Ace]

Greetings!

How developed of an economy do you use in your games? Have you worked out books of detail on coinage systems, exchange rates, resources, detailed trade relationships, or is it just sort of handwaved?

I think that having a fairly detailed section on guilds and economics can be very useful. For example, knowing the trade realtionships and the exchange values, and having some sections that detail how much things are valued, and by who, can help a Game Master when running a game where the party is in a ship at sea, and raiding, and they come across a merchant ship that they capture. The merchant ship is full of leapard furs, ten cases of exotic perfume, and 12 tons of finely crafted furniture made out of Teak and Mahogany wood. The ship that the players captured is 220 miles away from the city of Spearmint, which is especially fond of the perfume, while 385 miles away is the city of Blackberry, and they are known to especially value the fine exotic furniture.

Obviously, having some knowledge of guilds, import duties, exchange rates, values, and coinage will prove useful in such situations, and potentially even inspire various kinds of adventures, based on pursuing or working for some trade or merchant interest. The possibilities are quite diverse, and can offer some very different kinds of adventuring beyond dungeon raiding and hack and slash.

What do you think?

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

Wow! a SHARK 3fer.

Trade is a funny thing IMC. I have been running most of my adventures in a sizable country called Vinyar. It is an island bigger than the British isles with a warm temerate climate and a population of about 7 million.

It has the unique trait that the inhabitants are widely feared xenophobic death obessed loonies in the eyes of the rest of the world

This dates in part to campaign prehistory in which the epic level mages of Vinyar accidently wiped out a country with a super blight spell. It wasn't intended to do anything but wipe out all of the noble families of the enemy nations but the spell was botched and it got everyone within that nationsa borders and left in unihabitable for a hundred years

The Vinyar aren't obsessed with death really, they just don't care if they die. They have a saying 'death is easy, life is hard".

While trade has resumed a bit the Vinyar will only trade excess grain for gold, silver, copper, steel or jems. They don't import anything else in the way of goods or export anything but mercenarys

The Vinyar have a single ally nation the Brin Republic which brokers all the trade for 25% of the profits. This works well for everyone involved. The Vinyar will sell surplus to the Brin and only the Brin

Another odd part of the equation are the mercenaries.

The Vinyar "Frecom" are excellent mercenaries and reliable to boot. They can be found anywhere, basically all of energetic and quarrelsome Vinar end up doing a stint in one of the Frecom or the "Incoom" INdentured Comainies

The companies do share the xenophobia of the parent country though and aboard surprisingly little in the way of foriegn ideas outside of warcraft.

I haven't worked out the trade set up for the other 60 or so nations yet, many are fuedal or isolated.

There are a few great trade powers, the 10 cities and the Brin Republic. They trade with a few of the decadent northern nations, Orenita (my version of Rokugan with a highly mixed flavor) each other and anyone that they can.

I also have some Seafolk tyoes that trade hither and yon but in raw amounts it isn't much

By 18th century standards the trade amounts are a joke (no colonies for starters) but there is some trading on Midrea. Not as much as their could be but its hard to get much going of there is a near apocolypse ever couple hundred years

 

[Ace]

Guilds are a different matter.

The Vinyar don't have guilds, while they are a monarchy (sort of) the charter (the national constitution) doesn't allow them any special rights.

They are illegal in the Brin Republic

For most other countries guilds are stictly local affairs.

The incesant internacene fighting on the mainland (100 plus years of war) has left few of the nations stable enough to have guilds or even the same king from year to year

The ten cities have guild but I haven't worked them out in detail i assume they are on the Italian Rennisance pattern

Another exception is Galandria, which is Ren Faire land more or less. They have a fairly effective and honest guild system.

There is also the Society of the Chain or the slavers guild as they are popuarly called. They are a malovent and protective order dedicated to the religious notion that the ownership of slaves is vital partof humanity.
They do all of the price regulating, quality control and so on a guild would normally do even though they are a cult in all actuallity.

 

[Ace]

Sorry about the flurry of replies bt I like to split them up for clarity.

As far as currency, I handwave almost all of it

I do know the Vinyar and Brin Currency though

Vinyar

Gold Crown
Silver Penny
Copper Bit

Brin Republic uses the Dollar (10GP) Penny (identical except in marking to a Vinar one 1sp) Dime (1gp) and so on