D&D 4E Gunpowder in 4E?

[JDJblatherings]

Out of curiosity, what muskets in particular are you talking about? Muskets have a very long history, and have changed a lot over that history. Remember, for the purposes of D&D we are more likely talking about hand-cannons and matchlocks rather than flintlocks and rifled muskets.

most of my musket experience is with 18th centurt and early 19th century technology. A rifled musket, is a rifle and I wouldn't include it in the data for muskets. all that makes a musket a rifle is rifling but it does make a huge difference in the effectiveness of the weapons. Some early muskets actually got much greater overall ranges then later day muskets because they used much larger charges then later day musket but the firing mechanisms could generally reduce accuracy.


gun powder and firearms technolgoy existsed during most of the middle ages. 1247 is generally accepted as the first verifieable european use. Mechanical firign devices appeared in the 1420's (earlytmatchlocks and even some snap locks). Rifling was first invented in 1498 but it wasn't commonly used in miliatry arms until the middle of the 19th century.

 

[CleverNickName]

gun powder and firearms technolgoy existsed during most of the middle ages. 1247 is generally accepted as the first verifieable european use.

I did some digging around on the history of muskets and firearms, and thought I would share what I found. There is a TON of info out there, so I only hit the high points...

Courtesy of Wikipedia:

hand cannon (13th - 16th century) - the first firearm. The first evidence of a portable hand cannon dates back to 1260, when the Egyptians used them against the Mongols.

blunderbus (15th - 17th Century) - the predecessor of the shotgun, and the weapon of choice for pirates. The trumpet-shaped barrel made loading easier.

arquebus (15th - 17th Century) - a low-velocity musket used against plate mail. This was a smooth-bore, long-barrel musket that started in China and quickly spread all over the world.

teppo (16th Century) - Japanese guns. Sort of derails our pop-culture ideal of a samurai, doesn't it?

Brown Bess (16th - 18th century) - the musket of the late Renaissance/Colonial period. A skilled musketeer could fire up to four rounds a minute if firing at will (once every 15 seconds, or approximately every other round in D&D terms,) with "two and a half shots per minute" (once every 24 seconds, or every 4th D&D round) being the average.

rifle (early 18th century to present) - a firearm with helical grooves in the barrel. Extremely accurate, but extremely difficult to manufacture.

breech-loader (15th century to present) - a cannon, musket, or rifle that can be loaded from the rear (near the priming charge) instead of from the muzzel. Advantages are faster loading, and the operator is less exposed to enemy fire while reloading. The most significant disadvantage is gas leaking, which can injure the operator.

matchlock (14th - 18th century) - a musket that uses a smoldering piece of rope saturated with salt petre (the "match") to fire the primary charge. The first firing mechanism, it was useless in the rain, and difficult to keep lit.

flintlock (15th century to present) - any firearm that uses a flint, striker, pan, and primer to discharge. Useless in the rain, but still better than a matchlock.

wheel lock (16th - 17th century) - a firearm with a striking mechanism similar to a modern cigarette lighter: a piece of iron pyrite is held in a clamp against a sparking wheel. Somewhat more resistant to moisture and easier to conceal.

Almost every article about early firearms described them as being inferior to longbows. The reason that firearms became more prevalent in modern battle was not because they were technologically superior, but because they were much easier to use. Where it took months, maybe years to become proficient with a bow, a commoner could become proficient with a firearm in just a few days or weeks. This might not make a difference in the D&D game world, but in our own real-world history of warfare this was an enormous advantage. There is just no way to replicate that in game terms.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

As someone who has run and participated in campaigns that excluded and those that included gunpowder, I wouldn't mind seeing gunpowder mechanics as a fully playtested alternate rule secton towards the end of the DMG.

That way, my group could take it or leave it, but would at least have the assurance that it was tested by the same people as tested the rest of the Core.

 

[med stud]

Almost every article about early firearms described them as being inferior to longbows. The reason that firearms became more prevalent in modern battle was not because they were technologically superior, but because they were much easier to use. Where it took months, maybe years to become proficient with a bow, a commoner could become proficient with a firearm in just a few days or weeks. This might not make a difference in the D&D game world, but in our own real-world history of warfare this was an enormous advantage. There is just no way to replicate that in game terms.

The best way to replicate it would be to make firearms simple weapons and make commoners have proficiency in it as long as they have a couple of days of training.

 

[Stoat]

IMC, anyone can use a firearm with no penalty to attack. However, those who invest in Exotic Weapon proficiency: Firearms can reload the weapon quickly. (As a standard action)

 

[Hussar]

I'm frankly surprised that there is anyone complaining about gun powder in core. It's been there for 30 years. EVERY edition had gunpowder weapons in the core books. Even before "core books" was a concept.

Why would including it in 4e be even remotely deal breaking? I mean, huh? It's ok to have the arquebus in the 2e PHB but, not in the 4e? 3e had rules for all sorts of gunpowder. One of the better illos in the 3.0 DMG too.

 

[JDJblatherings]

teppo (16th Century) - Japanese guns. Sort of derails our pop-culture ideal of a samurai, doesn't it?.

Only if we manage to never see Seven_Samurai , the villains in that make use of firearms. Or never played Nobunaga's_Ambition.

 

[RandomCitizenX]

IMC, anyone can use a firearm with no penalty to attack. However, those who invest in Exotic Weapon proficiency: Firearms can reload the weapon quickly. (As a standard action)

I really like this rule and will most likely use it in my 4e campaign if it is not the norm for firearms

 

[CleverNickName]

I really like this rule and will most likely use it in my 4e campaign if it is not the norm for firearms

That's not a bad idea...although I will probably use Rapid Reload instead. Maybe make Rapid Reload applicable to different weapons, the way that Weapon Focus is? Rapid Reload [Crossbow], Rapid Reload [Musket], Rapid Reload [Hand Cannon], etc.

I would also like to see ammunitions that are faster and easier to load. Like those paper packets of powder, padding, and pellets (say that five times fast), that you bite the end off of and shove down the barrel of your musket. This type of ammunition would allow you to use your blunderbuss faster, but it would cost a lot more than buying bulk powder and shot.

Regardless, even with all of the right feats and equipment and training, I think that nobody should be able to fire a musket every round without the aid of magic.

 

[Gundark]

I'm a fan of the Iron Kingdoms...so yes I wouldn't mind it. In fact something like this might give Privateer Press the push they need to release a 4e IK book.

However I'm good either way.