HârnMaster 3 pdf available free from CGI!

[GrumpyOldMan]

I'll also agree that now that I have given the system a thorough skimming, it certainly does not appear as complex as I had been led to believe. But, still, I never avoided it over that anyway. I avoided it because of the steady negative publicity I received from the fans of it that I encountered. I played plenty of other games, so that was sufficient reason to me to not need to add one more.

I guess a main reason I'm not interested in HarnMaster now is that I am completely satisified with D20.

Lots of people seem to believe that HârnMaster is a complex game. As Iron Chef said, and you seem to agree, it is nowhere near as complex as people think. The basic system is one of the simplest & most straightforward I know. Why do people assume that it will be complicated? Becuse it uses a graphic injury system, not Hit Points? I find it no more difficult than DnD and a damn sight simpler than many games, which, out of politeness, I won't name.

20 years ago I loved AD&D & Greyhawk, 15 years ago Runequest & Glorantha was the only game in town. Now, for me, it's HârnMaster & Hârn.

GOM

 

[Iron_Chef]

All this talk of "elitist snob Harniacs" being a reason not to play a game or even check out the rules (especially when they're FREE in this day and age of the $30-65 core rulebook) seems pointless to me. Every system has its elitist snobs, from d20 to Warhammer to HarnMaster. It's only natural for people to gravitate toward one system that they prefer and think is the best (for their needs). Extolling the virtues of their "dream game" is also only natural, and can, to those unfamiliar with it or uninterested (for whatever reason), come off as sounding "elitist" when what they mean to sound is "enthusiastic". On message boards and chat rooms, we miss out on subtle body language and inflections, easily misinterpreting other's remarks as being something they were not intended to be. Throw in improper usage of words such as "abysmal" and you see how fires can be stoked accidentally. *cough* (Dongmaster)

I am not offended by any any of the posts so far, but I really wish this bickering over whether or not Byron D was offended by notions of elitism on the Harn forum would go away. IMO, it's only interesting to Byron D and a handful of harniacs who seek to disprove him---it has nothing to do with what this thread should be about: the HarnMaster rules set and all things Harn, and/or how they compare and contrast to d20 and other systems. I'm sure Byron D believes there was elitism on the Harn boards and I'm sure the harniacs believe there wasn't, or not a significant majority of elitism, at any rate, seeing as how it's impossible not to have at least *some* elitism on any forum. If you think ENWorld or d20 is free of its fair share of elitism, more power to you...

My point is, if Byron D and anyone else want to belabor this unwinnable argument any further, they should wage it by email and spare the rest of us from this irritating distraction.

Can we please get back to discussing HarnMaster rules or the HarnWorld setting? Stay on topic, people!

 

[hrafnagud]

Can we please get back to discussing HarnMaster rules or the HarnWorld setting? Stay on topic, people!

And here I was thinking the thread already had come back to useful discussion...

 

[BryonD]

And here I was thinking the thread already had come back to useful discussion...

Me too.

PLUS

I never claimed that there was elitism on the Harn Forums, never been there, wouldn't know

PLUS

We have clearly established that there are plenty of non-elitist Harn folks

PLUS

Those reasonable Harn folks have agreed that my non-Harn forum experiences did likely happen (as unfortunate and non-representative as they may be)

PLUS

No one EVER said that the existance of ANY elitists were a reason to not play or check out the rules.

PLUS

I already readily acknowledged that there is PLENTY of D20 elitism here.

So, IC, is there anything else for me to clarify? Or can we stay on topic?

Edit: In all seriousness Iron Chef, the dispute was over. I made it clear I wouldn't respond further to DongMaster and he implied he would not be posting further anyway. A friendly agreement has been reached between me and the other Harn fans. So if you want to rant at me further, please, try to get the facts correct and than take you own advice, e-mail me.

 

[BryonD]

Sorry, multi post

 

[BryonD]

and again

 

[Iron_Chef]

Am I now to be the target of flames for trying to steer this thread back on topic? I posted *on topic* originally in an effort to get this thread back on course, then you verbal brawlers posted more nonsense harping on each other back and forth. I merely called for order. To attack me thus, Byron D, proves that you are not interested in civilized discourse on the thread topic, but only in endless banal bickering. What a sad state of affairs. Get you hence from this thread so that those of us interested in intelligent, on topic discussion can be about our business in peace. You, sir, are a troll!

 

[tkinias]

I've really tried staying away from getting into a system merit debate.

I thought that was the whole point

Well, not so much to debate which is better, but a discussion of the relative merits of gaming systems can be quite interesting and enjoyable IMHO.

I guess a main reason I'm not interested in HarnMaster now is that I am completely satisified with D20.

I'm glad you have found a system which so completely fits your style of play. For many of us, the quest for such a system was a long and often bumpy one, so when we arrive at the destination we like to point out, for the benefit of future travellers, some of the more interesting terrain we passed along the way.

 

[tkinias]

I'm not sure that Hârn has exclusive claim to rules re-writers. Almost every system has its own rules engineers & rules lawyers. In fact, I'm not sure that Hârn has any more, or less, as a percentage than any other system.

(BTW, I like the nick... I can relate. )

You're right, Hârn does not have exclusive claim, although it might tend to attract more `tinkerers' than some systems. At any rate, such players can seem to characterize the community, perhaps because, though a minority, they are quite visible due to the community's relatively small size. I just wanted to point out that, even if some players spend an inordinate amount of time coming up with tables for what happens when a man with a strength of 16 tries to string a 60 pound bow one-handed in the rain, that needn't be what Hârn is about,
and the game can be quite enjoyably played without worrying about such complexities.

 

[BryonD]

Am I now to be the target of flames for trying to steer this thread back on topic? I posted *on topic* originally in an effort to get this thread back on course, then you verbal brawlers posted more nonsense harping on each other back and forth. I merely called for order. To attack me thus, Byron D, proves that you are not interested in civilized discourse on the thread topic, but only in endless banal bickering. What a sad state of affairs. Get you hence from this thread so that those of us interested in intelligent, on topic discussion can be about our business in peace. You, sir, are a troll!

My apologies. I should have understood that you had the right to rant at me, including a series of factual errors, and my only recourse was to lower my eyes.

I guess that is your defintion of "civilized discourse".

But if pointing out incorrect statements and actually responding to a rant is your definition of a troll, then I am guilty. But not by any definition I have heard before this evening.

For "merely" calling for order, you sure needed a lot of excess words. Or perhaps you are overly charitable to your previous statements.

But whatever, I'll just file you the same as DongMaster and let you say whatever you want from now on. If the actual words you type have no meaning to you, they certainly should not have any for me.

But if thou wilt bequeath thine debased troll with the honor, I believe I shalt linger hither for some time.