Hacking polymorph (again)

[hong]

Yet another thread about changing polymorph (and alter self). This one is because I'm not a great fan of PCs going into fights polymorphed into some funky being. This is more a flavour issue than a power or balance issue.


Alter Self
(stat block remains the same)

You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form (such as humanoid or magical beast). The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The max HD of the assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a max of 5 HD at 5th caster level. You retain your own ability scores, class and level, hit points, alignment, BAB and base save bonuses.

You gain the extraordinary abilities of the new form, but you lose all extraordinary, supernatural and spell-like abilities of your original form. This includes all abilities gained from class levels, such as spellcasting, feats (including weapon and armour proficiencies), and class abilities like sneak attacks and rage.

(most of the rest of the spell remains the same as in the 3.5 PHB)


Polymorph
(stat block remains the same)

As alter self, except the subject can assume the form of any creature type except outsider, construct or undead. The new form is limited to a max of 15HD. The subject retains its own Int, Wis and Cha, but gains the Str, Dex and Con of the new form.


Shapechange
(stat block remains the same)

As polymorph, except you can assume the form of any creature type. The new form is limited to a max of 50HD. You retain your own Int, Wis and Cha, but gain the Str, Dex and Con of the new form. You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the new form, but lose your own supernatural and spell-like abilities.


Comments?

 

[Cheiromancer]

50 HD seems off the scale for Shapechange. Wouldn't 25 HD be more in line with the spell level caps?

 

[gamecat]

I like the idea of 10 + caster level for maximum HD reached by this revision of shapechange (5 plus caster level, max 15 for polymorph), and 5 for alter self.

Overall, good changes... Consider these implemented in my campaign.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Yet another thread about changing polymorph (and alter self). This one is because I'm not a great fan of PCs going into fights polymorphed into some funky being. This is more a flavour issue than a power or balance issue.


Alter Self
(stat block remains the same)

You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form (such as humanoid or magical beast). The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The max HD of the assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a max of 5 HD at 5th caster level. You retain your own ability scores, class and level, hit points, alignment, BAB and base save bonuses.

You gain the extraordinary abilities of the new form, but you lose all extraordinary, supernatural and spell-like abilities of your original form. This includes all abilities gained from class levels, such as spellcasting, feats (including weapon and armour proficiencies), and class abilities like sneak attacks and rage.

(most of the rest of the spell remains the same as in the 3.5 PHB)

It seems wierd to me that someone who changes forms would suddenly forget his abilities to use martial weapons.

Are you intending to have someone who uses alter self to change how he looks (ie -a human becoming another human) to lose the ability to use a sword?

And you are aware that someone who becomes the more powerful targets for poly/shapeshift will GAIN those proficiencies anyway? (outsider and giant are favourite forms for combat, and both GAIN martial weapon proficiency, and many gain armour proficiencies).

Or for that matter that it becomes impossible for a druid to wildshape back into a person?

I'd suggest you allow the use of class abilities.

I'd suggest if you want to get rid of people polymorphing into creatures for the purpose of combat, that you simply state that gear vanishes when you polymorph/shapechange, and is replaced with nonmagical versions of the standard gear in the creature's stat block.

This is especially effective because most of the combat-ready forms are not human sized/shaped.

This will restrict changing forms to a utility basis - most fighters would prefer their gear to the stats of a fire giant (unless you've stolen all their gear).

 

[hong]

It seems wierd to me that someone who changes forms would suddenly forget his abilities to use martial weapons.

Someone changing into a fish-man before your eyes is kinda weird to start with.

Are you intending to have someone who uses alter self to change how he looks (ie -a human becoming another human) to lose the ability to use a sword?

Yep. If all you want is to disguise yourself, use disguise self.

And you are aware that someone who becomes the more powerful targets for poly/shapeshift will GAIN those proficiencies anyway? (outsider and giant are favourite forms for combat, and both GAIN martial weapon proficiency, and many gain armour proficiencies).

1) You can't polymorph into an outsider.

2) Fair call on the giant, although losing all your own feats might be disincentive enough anyway. One of the following might address this: a) your BAB and base saves change to match the target creature; b) you can change to a creature no larger than your normal size.

Or for that matter that it becomes impossible for a druid to wildshape back into a person?

Yeah, yeah. Let's assume I'm smart enough to let druids do their druidic schtick, yes?