Half-Celestial Rog 1/Mnk 8 - Help

[Metallian]

Hello,

I'm finally going to get to play a 3e game (instead of only DMing one) in the near future. It's going to be a Planeshifting game, and we all start as 12th level characters.

For both flavor purposes and ass-kicking purposes, I've chosen to play a Half-Celestial/Half-Human Rog 1/Mnk 8. Half-Celestial gives me flavor and cool abilities, the level of Rogue gives me Sneak Attack (helps with damage) and more importantly, lots of skills (which are important to me...just keeps me from being bored). Monk is just because I like it. It'll be a short campaign so I don't know how much we'll advance, but I'll have to advance in Rogue from now on because my character just got thrown out of the moastery for being Chaotic. =)

Oh, and I did manage to roll for the wings. =)

The DM is using his own point-based ability score method...we start out with all 14s and can trade up or down on a one-for-one basis.

His ability scores (including Half-Celestial boosts and level boosts, but not magic items) are Str 20, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 14, Wis 20, Cha 16.

My feat selection is Dodge, Mobility, Expertise, Spring Attack and...I need another one. I was going to choose Knock-Down but I actually can't do it due to the way the prerequisites work out, so I need something else. I would ideally like something to boost the save DC for his Stunning Attack (so he can exploit it for Sneak Attacks), or perhaps some other feat that helps him score Sneak Attacks...like Feign Weakness, perhaps? On the other hand, a strong Monk with Expertise AND Power Attack will be very adaptable in combat!

For magic items, I picked up an Amulet of Mighty Fists +2 (since many fiends have DR X/+2), Gloves of Dex +4, Belt of Str +4, Minor Ring of Fire Resistance (since he doesn't have Fire immunity to go with Cold, Elec, and Acid), and Bracers of Armor +4. I wanted some Ki Straps, but I couldn't wear them with Gloves of Dex.

(Which, of course, means he has *no* money for anything else. However, that makes sense since he's just been kicked out of an austere monastery.)

Highlights (from memory): AC 28, Unarmed attack +15/+12, 1d10+9 (see why I wanted Knock-Down?), 73 HP.


I don't have a lot of experience with Monks or with play at this level. Am I making any horrible mistakes? Is he going to get his ass kicked? Any really great suggestions for another feat? Should I distribute my ability score points differently? Should I change my magic item selections?


Some specific questions:

A Half-Celestial can fly at twice normal speed. Is a monk's speed considered "normal"? (i.e., does he fly at 60ft or 100ft?)

Realistically, will I be doing much Stunning?

Can Spring Attack be used while Flying? (I think the answer is yes...nothing in the feat says otherwise. There is a "Flyby Attack" feat, but it has no prerequisites so I don't think it's required if you qualify for Spring Attack and can fly)

Thanks,

The Metallian

 

[hammymchamham]

half-celestial is ECL 4 according to Savage Species IIRC...

also a monks speed above a speed of 50 is considered supernatural, and is no longer normal movement.

 

[Metallian]

half-celestial is ECL 4 according to Savage Species IIRC...

also a monks speed above a speed of 50 is considered supernatural, and is no longer normal movement.

ARGH!

I started making my character before SS was released...grr.

Thanks for the tip...we'll see how that works out in this campaign. That will probably screw me all up. Oh, well. He can FLY after all, and he has loads of immunities.

So...if a monk speed OVER 50 is considered "not normal," I guess a monk speed OF 50 is "normal?" So he can fly at 100ft? Sweeeet...

The Metallian

 

[LuYangShih]

Yes, he can fly at 100 feet. I'd suggest going pure Monk, by the way. You aren't going to be very effective as a Monk if you only have 7 or 8 levels in it. The Monk is one of the classes that's best suited staying single classed, unless of course you want a PrC. Also, Stunning is nice, but it's not essential.

There are plenty of feats out there that would be a good addition to your arsenal, so it really depends on what type of character you're going for here. Is he supposed to be fast and brutal, quick and subtle, strong and tough? I would suggest Flyby Attack instead of the Spring Attack chain, by the way, if your DM allows it.

 

[Lindsay McHenry]

items

Since you are only wearing one magic ring, I would suggest getting a ring of protection +1 and downgrading your bracers of armor to a +3. Same game effect as having the bracers +4, but 5000 gp cheaper, I think. Unless you have something else with a protection bonus that won't stack...

Lindsay

 

[Metallian]

Yes, he can fly at 100 feet. I'd suggest going pure Monk, by the way. You aren't going to be very effective as a Monk if you only have 7 or 8 levels in it. The Monk is one of the classes that's best suited staying single classed, unless of course you want a PrC. Also, Stunning is nice, but it's not essential.

I'd like to stay pure monk (after the one level of Rogue for skills and perhaps magic item use), but I've envisioned the character as rather Chaotic all along. It's annoying I can't make a non-lawful unarmed fighter (though I understand the reasoning behind it). I don't suppose there's a Chaotic monk-like PrC? =)

I'd take up Fighter levels, but then I run into multiclassing XP-penalty issues. =(

There are plenty of feats out there that would be a good addition to your arsenal, so it really depends on what type of character you're going for here. Is he supposed to be fast and brutal, quick and subtle, strong and tough? I would suggest Flyby Attack instead of the Spring Attack chain, by the way, if your DM allows it.

That would be really cool (I plan to have enough Tumble that I won't need Mobility that much anyway) but Flyby Attack means I'll incur attacks of opportunity from the defender when I attack, right?

Of course, if it turns out that my DM decides to go with ECL +4 for Half-Celestials, the point is rather moot as I won't be able to take Spring Attack anyhow. At least not until I gain a level.

The Metallian

 

[Metallian]

Re: items

Since you are only wearing one magic ring, I would suggest getting a ring of protection +1 and downgrading your bracers of armor to a +3. Same game effect as having the bracers +4, but 5000 gp cheaper, I think. Unless you have something else with a protection bonus that won't stack...

&lt smacks forehead &gt

Of course! Then I could afford Ki Straps...though I could not wear them.

Then again, I'll be able to afford more than one set of clothes, a backpack, and stuff like that. Some potions of Blur or something like that couldn't hurt, either...

The Metallian

 

[Artoomis]

One of the Monks' great abilities is non-armor armor class. Rings of protection are FAR more valuable to a monk than bracers - the AC bonus applies to touch attacks!! The monk is one of the only classes than can be easily be set up to that touch attacks will mostly miss. Take full advantage of that.

You should consider having the monk be pure monk. Don't worry about offense - focus on what a monk does best - DEFENSE. Take your offensive abilities as they come and do the best you can with them, but concentrate on survival. It's what monk's do better than anyone else.

One level of Paladin would give kick-but saves, BTW.

I'd go with Stats of:

Str 12 (not very important), Dex 20 (AC and Reflex Saves), Con 16 (Hit Points and Fort Saves), Int 18 (Skill Points), Wis 20 (AC and Will Saves), Cha 18 (S Paladin Save Bonus).

I think those are legal for you.

 

[Urbanmech]

You can make a non-lawful unarmed fighter, check out the Sacred Fist from Defenders of the Faith. It is also one of the quickest PrC's to get into if you start as a Ranger or Paladin.

 

[Metallian]

One of the Monks' great abilities is non-armor armor class. Rings of protection are FAR more valuable to a monk than bracers - the AC bonus applies to touch attacks!! The monk is one of the only classes than can be easily be set up to that touch attacks will mostly miss. Take full advantage of that.

I'd love to, but Rings of Protection are unfortunately way more expensive than Bracers of Armor. =(

I'll do my best to upgrade later, though.

You should consider having the monk be pure monk. Don't worry about offense - focus on what a monk does best - DEFENSE. Take your offensive abilities as they come and do the best you can with them, but concentrate on survival. It's what monk's do better than anyone else.

Well, I definitely like the idea of a guy who's really hard to hit and I've gone to some effort to make him reasonably defensive (AC 28, 29 with Dodge and up to 33-34 with Expertise...is that good?) but what's the fun in merely surviving? Monks don't get a lot of "utility" abilities (i.e., Disarming Traps, casting utility spells, social skills, stealing stuff) so what would his purpose in the party really be?

(I've never played a Monk and nobody in my other group plays a Monk so I don't have a good frame of reference...let me know if I'm missing something. However, a big reason I want to play a Monk is because I like the idea of this angelic guy with wings punching the crap out of people. I also hear a lot of complaints about how monks are hosed against critters with DR, so I figured I NEED an Amulet of Mighty Fists.)

One level of Paladin would give kick-but saves, BTW.

I'd go with Stats of:

Str 12 (not very important), Dex 20 (AC and Reflex Saves), Con 16 (Hit Points and Fort Saves), Int 18 (Skill Points), Wis 20 (AC and Will Saves), Cha 18 (S Paladin Save Bonus).

I think those are legal for you.

Paladin would be good for saves, but I keep running into a "character concept wall," which is that I really don't want to play a Lawful character. My other character (I'm in another campaign) is Lawful and that's fine but I need a change of pace. But I still want to punch and kick things and have a big huge armor class, so Monk it is. This guy's a former street punk who drinks and smokes and has an attitude...but can't escape the fact that he's basically a Good guy. He was dragged into a monastery for a while (by some holy monks that wanted an angel around) and learned a lot of things, but he's slipped back into his old habits (Chaotic) and now he's slumming about looking for a purpose in life...

I realize there's a bit of a contradiction between what I say I'm trying to do (make a reasonably powerful character) and what I'm doing (sticking to my non-D&D-friendly character concept) so I apologize for making this difficult! =)

The upside is that most of my group is not made up of min/max optimizers with tons of books who hang out on the internet and ask the experts for character advice (like me) so the competition to design the optimal character won't be too fierce.

Also, I imagine that a host of immunities and a natural Fly speed of 100 ft (faster than a Fly spell...HAHA!) can make up for an awful lot of character-concept-induced-shortcomings. =)

The Metallian

ps - Perhaps I should have asked, "Assuming I'm rather committed to the idea of starting with a Level of Rogue, continuing as a Monk, and then abandoning the Monk path right before play begins, what are the best/coolest things I should do and what should I make sure to avoid?"