Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Half-Celestials, unlike certain other templates, get powers by level, not by Hit Dice.
-Hyp.
Half-Celestials: Who plays one, and what are they *Really* worth?
- Thread starter Sepulchrave II
- Start date
Half-Celestials, unlike certain other templates, get powers by level, not by Hit Dice.
-Hyp.
Epametheus
First Post
+4 tops, though Half-Celestial comes out as a +8 or so if you actually put it through the formulas in Savage Species.
Half-celestials aren't particularly good wizards, but they make awesome paladins. One of the odd benefits of being the class with no dump stats as that you get pretty damn impressive when you have good stats across the board. Sure, other classes benefit from good overall stats, but having an 18 Wisdom and an 18+ Charisma does significantly more for a paladin than it would for, say, a fighter.
That being said, half-celestial/fiend/dragon are all very strong when applied properly; you certainly shouldn't use them in a low-magic campaign.
Half-celestials aren't particularly good wizards, but they make awesome paladins. One of the odd benefits of being the class with no dump stats as that you get pretty damn impressive when you have good stats across the board. Sure, other classes benefit from good overall stats, but having an 18 Wisdom and an 18+ Charisma does significantly more for a paladin than it would for, say, a fighter.
That being said, half-celestial/fiend/dragon are all very strong when applied properly; you certainly shouldn't use them in a low-magic campaign.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Yeah... just like I'd judge the strength of a half-ogre by comparing it to a fighter or barbarian of equivalent ECL, I'd judge a half-celestial as a paladin.
A Pal16/HalfCel4 is tough, especially if geared towards maximising Charisma and the benefits therefrom.
(There are two PrCs in the Freeport Campaign setting that add Charisma to AC, but they're both "any non-Lawful"
)-Hyp.
I don't know. Half-Celestials get nice stat bonuses, and their spell-like abilities are pretty good, but is it really worth four character levels? Consider that, for a fighter-type character, that means you're pretty much constantly going to be one attack behind the curve (since Half-Cels don't get any BAB that I'm aware of - although I don't have Savage Species, I'm just going by the Monster Manual here). A 14th level Half-Celestial paladin still only gets two attacks. That's a pretty significant disadvantage, IMO.
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greycastle
First Post
A possiblity to even out *just for the HC player 
* would be the use of say using this house rule
Instead of being counted as CL +4, you simply gain experience as if you were +4 levels higher...you gain exp slower, but aren't as far behind near the start i believe
* would be the use of say using this house ruleInstead of being counted as CL +4, you simply gain experience as if you were +4 levels higher...you gain exp slower, but aren't as far behind near the start i believe
The Iron Mark
First Post
Why is this discussion still going on? *sigh* To put it simply Half-Celestial is +3 without wings, +4 with wings. Those are the official LAs. Everyone happy now?
Thresher
First Post
Ive sort of given one a run, Muhlrondi human/half Celestial, level 11 cleric of Bast with the temprement that could be best described as "gettin old testament on their arse" type of personality. The extra mobilty of the wings lets me as the party combat medic try to get in where its needed and its quite a savage little beast as far as melee and blowing the crap out of things. Add in a few fire-resist buffs and laugh at enemy arcane casters try to nuke you... though energy drain and 'insta-kill' transmutations can ruin your life like anyone elses.
So far my caster level hasnt been too bad, though come around level 18-20 I think it could end up a bit of a "gimp", like most things around that level in D&D it starts comming apart and needs some propping up with house rules.
As for ECL?
Well, most of the ECL's Ive seen WoTC churn out to be slightly 'underpowered' and erring on the side of being slightly weaker in the long run and some just suck!
Just about any thing you can get as an inanate you can buy with cold, hard gold or manufacture. Trust me, as you get higher in levels the more you will rue missing a level or two behind the rest of the party and sit back and watch as someone picks up/makes an item you paid 2 levels in ECL for, exceed your own abilities can be disheartening.
But, if through your actions you can make a character that to you is at least unique and loveable then thats what matters in the end I guess.
So far my caster level hasnt been too bad, though come around level 18-20 I think it could end up a bit of a "gimp", like most things around that level in D&D it starts comming apart and needs some propping up with house rules.
As for ECL?
Well, most of the ECL's Ive seen WoTC churn out to be slightly 'underpowered' and erring on the side of being slightly weaker in the long run and some just suck!
Just about any thing you can get as an inanate you can buy with cold, hard gold or manufacture. Trust me, as you get higher in levels the more you will rue missing a level or two behind the rest of the party and sit back and watch as someone picks up/makes an item you paid 2 levels in ECL for, exceed your own abilities can be disheartening.
But, if through your actions you can make a character that to you is at least unique and loveable then thats what matters in the end I guess.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
My understanding was that the official LA is +4 with or without, and it has been unofficially suggested by the SS designers that perhaps without wings could be +3. I didn't believe that was official.
-Hyp.
The Iron Mark
First Post
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