Half-Dragony Goodness

[Dagredhel]

This thread is inspired by one from a couple of weeks ago asking for good half-dragon builds. I didn't have much to offer at the time, but the question stuck with me...

Half-Dragon Barbarian
(Natural Attack Monster)
Human base race, Barbarian 6 (+3 LA = ECL 9)

1st level
Barbarian 1 - alternative class feature: Lion Spiritual Totem (pounce ability)
Barbarian 1 - alternative class feature: Whirling Frenzy (+4 Str, +2 bonus to AC & Reflex saves, may make an extra attack at the expense of -2 to all attacks made that round)
1st level Feat: Dragon Tail (RoD pg.98, secondary natural attack 1d6)
Human bonus feat: Multiattack (secondary natural weapons attacks take only a -2 penalty)

3rd level
Bonus Feat: Improved Multiattack (no penalty with secondary natural weapons attacks)

6th level
Bonus Feat: Furious Inhalation (trade 1 use of breath weapon for +2d6 energy damage with bite while raging)

As a 6th level Barbarian, the character can make 4 attacks at full BAB on a normal full attack or at the end of a charge at 1d6+2d6 energy+10/1d4+5/1d4+5/1d6+5 damage, assuming an 18 base strength and rage, or make 5 attacks (adding a second bite!) at -2 with Whirling Frenzy.

Later feat selection might include Improved Natural Attack, Rapidstrike, Improved Rapidstrike, or Rapid Assault.

Dragon Breath (use breath weapon every 1d4 rounds) would allow the character to use Furious Inhalation as many times as he can rage.

Beast Claws (gauntlets from SS) are a perfect magic item for this character--- the enhancement bonus becomes +2 and the character deals normal claw damage +1d6, plus further enchantments can be added.

Edits:

Added Whirling Frenzy--- thanks, Drowbane.

Removed Flaw: Shaky (-2 to ranged attack rolls)/Bonus Feat: Furious Inhalation (trade 1 use of breath weapon for +2d6 energy damage with bite while raging) from 1st level abilities, moved Furious Inhalation to 6th level, replacing Dragon Breath.

 

[Drowbane]

Good stuff man.

As a 6th level Barbarian, the character can make 4 attacks at full BAB

Nitpick: You'd still be stuck to claw/claw/bite (no iteritive attacks due to BAB with natural weapons). Did I miss something above?

Oh, you could take Whirling Frenzy variant from UA to get a 4 attack (either another bite or claw, your choice)

 

[Shin Okada]

Nitpick: You'd still be stuck to claw/claw/bite (no iteritive attacks due to BAB with natural weapons). Did I miss something above?)

He took Dragon Tail feat and thus have Bite/Claw/Claw/Tail attack, regardless of Barbarian level, though.

Well, damage output seems to be OK. But he has lower saves and possiby lower AC and HP comparing to normal EL+0 9th-level melee characters. And enhancing natural weapon attacks costs much comparing to just buy a good manufactured melee weapon. So I am not sure how he will work well in actual games.

 

[Kat']

Plus in an actual game, the GM wouldn't maybe allow a full melee character to take "shaky" as a flaw... flaws are supposed to have actual drawbacks, they're not meant for min-maxing for feats.

The damage output is lower than a straight barbarian with the Power Attack/Improved Sunder/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper chain.

Half-orc Barb 9 with 18 base Str +2 racial +2 level up => 22 not counting gear, 26/+8 raging, wielding two-handed weapon such as greatsword, pouncing charge using leap attack and Heedless Charge
To Hit 9/bab+8/str+2/charge = +19/+14, full Power Attack with penalty transfered to AC instead of To Hit.
Damage 2d6+12/str+18/PA+18/Leap Attack = 2d6+48 per attack, average 110 dmg/round. All this without gear.

 

[Drowbane]

He took Dragon Tail feat and thus have Bite/Claw/Claw/Tail attack, regardless of Barbarian level, though.

Well, damage output seems to be OK. But he has lower saves and possiby lower AC and HP comparing to normal EL+0 9th-level melee characters. And enhancing natural weapon attacks costs much comparing to just buy a good manufactured melee weapon. So I am not sure how he will work well in actual games.

Ahh, see? I did miss something. heh. So with Whirling Frenzy he could be up to claw/claw/bite/tail + bite or claw or tail.

 

[Archimedes314]

Plus in an actual game, the GM wouldn't maybe allow a full melee character to take "shaky" as a flaw... flaws are supposed to have actual drawbacks, they're not meant for min-maxing for feats.

Not being able to fight at range is a pretty big drawback, but I disagree with flaws granting bonus feats in principal. I don't mind the idea of getting a drawback in exchange for some benefit, but when you get to choose the drawback and the benefit you're always going to end up with situations like the one in the OP. The traits (or whatever they're called, they are also in UA) are much better, IMHO.

 

[Dagredhel]

Nitpick: You'd still be stuck to claw/claw/bite (no iteritive attacks due to BAB with natural weapons).

As Shin Okada pointed out, the Dragon Tail feat adds a fourth natural attack at 1st level.

Moreover, the Rapidstrike feat (requires BAB +10 among other things) will eventually allow an additional claw attack at -5 (to that attack only), and Improved Rapidstrike (BAB +15) will allow four more claw attacks (at -5/-10/-15/-20, if I'm reading it correctly) for a total of 8 attacks--- the other four at full BAB!

Oh, you could take Whirling Frenzy variant from UA to get a 4th attack (either another bite or claw, your choice)

Wow, great idea! Let's add that right away.

Thanks, Drowbane!

 

[Dagredhel]

But he has lower saves and possiby lower AC and HP comparing to normal EL+0 9th-level melee characters.

Good points all, Shin. The loss of 3 HD has to hurt somewhere, after all. :\

HP will be about as good as they can be, considering... I didn't do ability scores, but I figured the assumption would be that Strength would be maximized and Constitution would be the next best score. So with +2 from the template, the character should have a decent Con bonus, and d12 for the HD he does get. Say 62 hit points with a 16 Con? That's equivalent to what a character with d8s and a 14 Con would get over 9 character levels, so I figure it's decent (and playable), if not necessarily awe-inspiring.

AC shouldn't be overly affected. The character benefits from +4 natural armor, and can still benefit from equipment, so should probably come out slightly ahead. Whirling Frenzy (which I added after the fact per Drowbane's recommendation) helps with AC, too.

Saves don't lag by much because the Con bonus adds to Fort, and the others are poor Saves anyways (so it's not like they would have sky-rocketed over the 3 lost levels.) Steadfast Determination (use Con instead of Wis on Will Saves; 1 not auto-failure) would be a great feat to have, if the character wasn't feat-starved to start. And Whirling Frenzy adds a bonus to Reflex Saves when it's in effect, too.

And enhancing natural weapon attacks costs much comparing to just buy a good manufactured melee weapon.

I think there are a couple of decent equipment choices that are fairly reasonable... Beast Claws, which I mentioned in the original post are one example... they'd also allow you to add those augment crystal thingees from MIC... I'll have to research that some more.

 

[Dagredhel]

Plus in an actual game, the GM wouldn't maybe allow a full melee character to take "shaky" as a flaw... flaws are supposed to have actual drawbacks, they're not meant for min-maxing for feats..

Alrighty, fair enough... I'll drop the flaw and bonus feat. (For discussion purposes, I tend to limit myself to WOTC stuff, but otherwise treat everything as fair game.)

The damage output is lower than a straight barbarian with the Power Attack/Improved Sunder/Leap Attack/Shock Trooper chain.

Aside from possibly ToB:BoNS, is any build going to equal the damage output of a Barbarian Two-Handed Power Attack Charging build? I'll settle for "viable"--- playable and at least comparable to anything other than a fully optimized build.

Half-orc Barb 9 with 18 base Str +2 racial +2 level up => 22 not counting gear, 26/+8 raging, wielding two-handed weapon such as greatsword, pouncing charge using leap attack and Heedless Charge
To Hit 9/bab+8/str+2/charge = +19/+14, full Power Attack with penalty transfered to AC instead of To Hit.
Damage 2d6+12/str+18/PA+18/Leap Attack = 2d6+48 per attack, average 110 dmg/round. All this without gear.

I'd say the fair comparison would be to a 6th level Half-Dragon Barbarian Two-Handed charger, since using the half dragon template was the whole point. And without "doing the math", I'll allow that the Two-Handed Power Attacker probably still comes out ahead when charging. But natural attacks are more... "dragony"

 

[Nifft]

How do you qualify for Furious Inhalation if you're trading out Rage? (IMHO it's not a great use of a feat anyway.)

Do you have access to Lords of Maddness? There's an Aberrant feat in there which gives you two extra tentacle attacks.

Cheers, -- N