Half-Elves: Underpowered

[Jdvn1]

Not a bad combo. But that halfling is still slow (bad as a scout)...

Doesn't a level in Scout put his speed with everyone else's?

 

[S'mon]

The Diplomacy bonus is nice, but (HR)....

HR

HR

HR approaching!

...to make them as good as humans I'd suggest a free Cosmopolitan feat at 1st level.

 

[Shin Okada]

..., but I guess for people desperate for a dim light vision, not smart enough to get it as a class ability, or as a permanent spell, or from an item, they can have their low light vision and their +2 diplomacy.

Well, it all depends on regulation (I often play core-rule-only campaign), character levels (I prefer 1-10 character levels), and such. IMHO, for "balance" sake, usability in low levels (and with core rules) are more important than those at higher levels. If we play at higher level, the difference between each races become insignificant as a lot of powerful spells and items become available. Also, if we start to include a lot of option rules (remember all the prestige classes are optional rules), there are alot of races other than core races and we must compare all of them.

Doesn't a level in Scout put his speed with everyone else's?

Yes. But that Halfling Scout is still slower than Scouts of other race. If you take the way of scaut, the faster, the better.

 

[Particle_Man]

I played a human rogue up to the end of the campaign (lvl 13). Never, not once, did my lack of lowlight vision become a problem. And I only wished for more skill points to have more skills I could max out. Human rogues OWN half-elf rogues in the campaigns I was in.

In 3.0, there were a lot of Ranger 1/Rogue X halflings.

Barring one "heavy roleplay" dude's character, I never, ever, ever saw a half-elf (not even an NPC!) in any 3rd ed campaign I played in or ran until 3.5, and that was when I played the diplomacy cheese half-elf cleric, just for kicks. So far, that is it. The consensus with my groups is that they suxxor.

 

[Shin Okada]

It seems that many DMs are more generous (or loose on rules) than DMs of my group. I don't know whether that is good or not. In my understanding, lighting and vision is a very important rule in every editions of D&D. And core races are balanced that fact in mind.

 

[ThirdWizard]

It seems that many DMs are more generous (or loose on rules) than DMs of my group. I don't know whether that is good or not. In my understanding, lighting and vision is a very important rule in every editions of D&D. And core races are balanced that fact in mind.

Low-light vision isn't that good unless you're doing a lot of night reconosance, which most groups don't do, or if they do, they make use of magic. Even a group composed of half-orcs, dwarves, and one human have to carry around a light source in a dungeon unless the human is using magic.

Halflings get:
+2 Dex (very helpful to rogues)
-2 Str (bad for rogues, unless you count on SA damage a lot)
+1 size bonus to AC
+1 size bonus to Attack
+4 size bonus to Hide
-4 size penalty to trips and grapples (2nd worst aspect)
wield smaller weapons (see -2 Str)
20 ft speed (the worst thing about them - kills any Spring Attack maneuver)
+2 racial bonus to Climb
+2 racial bonus to Jump
+2 racial bonus to Move Silently
+1 racial bonus to all saving throws
+2 morale bonus on saves versus fear
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings (stacks with size bonus, nice)
+2 racial bonus to Listen checks
Favored Class: Rogue

All in all, they make really good rogues. Their main drawback is speed, not their sight. I would reccomend a halfling rogue to concentrate more on ranged fighting (thrown preferably) at lower levels, then move into melee at higher levels when some kind of speed enhancement is attainable. Maybe boots that can cast Expedious Retreat X/day or something like that.

Typically with point buy they'll start with 12 Str and 16 Dex, maybe 17 Dex, which I don't think is too bad. Sneak attacking ranged is a problematic process, depending on one's views. () But, soon enough they can move into melee, using their enhanced dex to tumble about and finnesse their weapons. They're stealthier than other rogues, and +1 to all saving throws is an outstanding ability.

They make very good sorcerers too.

 

[Shin Okada]

So your group always move as a group? Your rogues never do the role of foward observer?
With light source or not, it is really a bad idea to go with armored fighters when scouting. So, scouting is usually done only with stealthy characters.
And most monsters in underground dungeon has darkvision. So most dungeons are not lit. If a halfling rogue brings a lantern when scounting a dungeon, he will surely be found by monsters before he notice the monsters. Ouch!

And dungeons are usually not near your home town. Adventurers travel there. So every night, they must camp. Unless DMs are very, very generous, night camp is not that much safe. In night camp, the vision is very important.

Also, sometimes, adventurers raid evil citadel, stronghold of bandits and such. In that case, forward observing is very important. As majority of the "pepole" in most world are human, demihumans with low-light or darkvision can have big advantage if they move at night.

Vision is very important. I have played some survival games (those with air-soft guns) when I was a high school student. We have played some night-time games. And someone with noctovision scope surely had an edge.

 

[ThirdWizard]

With light source or not, it is really a bad idea to go with armored fighters when scouting. So, scouting is usually done only with stealthy characters.

They don't usually move at night. During the day vision is moot.

And most monsters in underground dungeon has darkvision. So most dungeons are not lit. If a halfling rogue brings a lantern when scounting a dungeon, he will surely be found by monsters before he notice the monsters. Ouch!

Which low-light vision doesn't help with.

And dungeons are usually not near your home town. Adventurers travel there. So every night, they must camp. Unless DMs are very, very generous, night camp is not that much safe. In night camp, the vision is very important.

Yes, but watch is usually rotated. It doesn't overly matter if the rogue or the ranger or the barbarian has low-light vision. You won't see that far anyway, either way. At least compared to how far away the things out there can see you (with your fire going). Listen is much more important in this case, in my experience, and the halfling bonus is there.

Also, sometimes, adventurers raid evil citadel, stronghold of bandits and such. In that case, forward observing is very important. As majority of the "pepole" in most world are human, demihumans with low-light or darkvision can have big advantage if they move at night.

This is where the wizard/sorcerer's familiar, druid/ranger's animal companion, polymorph/wildshape or the like has always shined in my games. During the day, in plain sight, but so normal noone cares. Besides, a halfing with his +5 extra hide can do reconosance during the day and be fine from my experiences.

Where the halfing fails is his getaway when he's spotted, unfortunatley. The 20 foot movement doesn't help those chase scenes.

 

[Shin Okada]

All in all, they make really good rogues. Their main drawback is speed, not their sight.

I add "size" to this list. In 3.0e/3.5e, small size is a biiig penalty especially when a rogue commits some melee fight.

I would recommend a halfling rogue to concentrate more on ranged fighting (thrown preferably) at lower levels, then move into melee at higher levels when some kind of speed enhancement is attainable. Maybe boots that can cast Expeditions Retreat X/day or something like that.

First, thrown weapons don't do enough damage, especially when the combatant has lower strength and the weapon is smaller. Second, it is hard for a halfling to throw something without giving cover bonus to the opponents if low-level halflings try to avoid melee combats so that is not much a good fighting style. Third, cast "Expeditious Retreat D/day" does not help him much. He is spending precious one round in a combat just to compensate his disadvantage. That will not justify the fact that he is having that disadvantage.

Typically with point buy they'll start with 12 Str and 16 Dex, maybe 17 Dex, which I don't think is too bad. Sneak attacking ranged is a problematic process, depending on one's views. () But, soon enough they can move into melee, using their enhanced dex to tumble about and finesse their weapons.

I actually see several of halfling rogue in action. They have no problem when attacking. One of them were really nasty Rogue/Wizard who used Wand of Chill Touch (or Shocking Grasp) for sneak attacks. Touch attack with sneak attack bonus dices. Ouch!

Then he died. Swallowed by a large sized monster and digested. Another halfling rogue was disarmed by a bunch of spear holding soldiers. It was so easy even without Improved Disarm feat. As a rogue, he was using a light weapon (for finesse) and he was small. Without weapon, he was nothing. Another halfling rogue was tripped by a Worg so easily.

They're stealthier than other rogues, and +1 to all saving throws is an outstanding ability.

Those numbers mean nothing when monsters can see the light of his lantern from long distance.

They make very good sorcerers too.

No. Gnomes are much better due to their high Con and Low-Light vision.

 

[Shin Okada]

ThirdWizard,

>They don't usually move at night. During the day vision is moot.

Your adventurers are born under the lucky star if they can always choose to adventure under blight sunlight.

>Which low-light vision doesn't help with.

Yeah. Of course. Darkvision is better in underground. Still, someone with low-light vision is better than someone with normal vision as they can see twice as far. At least, they have better chance for "both side notice simultaneously". But of course, darkvision is better and which is one of the reason why I think Dwarfs make best rogues.

>Yes, but watch is usually rotated. It doesn't overly matter if the rogue
>or the ranger or the barbarian has low-light vision. You won't see that
>far anyway, either way. At least compared to how far away the things
>out there can see you (with your fire going). Listen is much more
>important in this case, in my experience, and the halfling bonus is
>there.

Combination of Dark/Low-light vision AND high spot bonus is important. And in this case, low-light vision is better than dark-vision. Adventurers are usually using some kind fo campfire. And there maybe the moon.

Remember, rogues cannot make sneak attacks if the target has some kind of concealment. That means, a halfling/human rogue can sneak attack at night only when he is very near from the light source.

>This is where the wizard/sorcerer's familiar, druid/ranger's animal
>companion, polymorph/wildshape or the like has always shined in
>my games. During the day, in plain sight, but so normal noone cares.
>Besides, a halfing with his +5 extra hide can do reconosance during
>the day and be fine from my experiences.

Actually, one of the best reckon I have ever seen was a bat familiar of Wizard 1/Ranger X. But they are not as clever as PC rogues or rangers. They can't draw maps for you. Especially, animal companions are just animals. Not that much clever. And both Familiars and Animal Companions cannot find traps with DC 21+.

Also, if your party rogue/ranger can only reckon in daytime, it will limit the plan of your party much. Not so convenient.

>Where the halfing fails is his getaway when he's spotted,
>unfortunatley. The 20 foot movement doesn't help those chase
>scenes.

And remember, a halfling ranger type cannot catch up with typical human group when tracking.