Half-Elves: Underpowered

[Evilhalfling]

halflings also make wonderful Psions -
either a feat or a power to improve speed, lots of early ranged touch attacks to take advantage of the dex and size bonuses. They are perhaps not as well suited as gnomes, but it is still a good match.

Halfling Psions are a staple of my games, and in the last world were reknowned for their psyhic abilities.

 

[Pickaxe]

I have a halfling druid, who gets an effective +3 (+2 Dex, +1 size, +1 thrown) to throwing Produce Flame, a ranged touch attack. It works pretty well. He can also ride his dog animal companion if needed, to negate the speed penalty. And, of course, he gets wildshape at 5th level, which opens up a lot more opportunities for speed.

Here are some other points that I've found interesting in this thread. Keep in mind that we've never played a campaign beyond 6th level (yet).

1) I'm surprised that elves are considered to be so weak. My impression (and that of my group) was that dwarves got extra things in 3.5 to make them more comparable to elves. Yes, elves get a Con penalty, but they get a Dex bonus, and Dex seems to be perhaps the most valuable ability. Furthermore, at least at lower levels, it seems that AC is more valuable than HP; compared to 1e (my only other D&D experience), damage is much greater in 3e, and it's better to avoid being hit than to try to soak up the damage. Elves also get proficiency in longswords and bows for free, which seems like a great thing for a number of classes. I anticipate that the responses to these points are: 1) AC doesn't scale with BAB well, so it becomes less valuable at higher levels, and 2) if you are of a class that doesn't get martial weapons normally, you aren't going to invest in improving your sword and bow attacks at higher levels when you have other better abilities, like spells. That longbow is less and less of a benefit to a wizard as he advances.

2) I'm curious why half-elves are considered to be the best spotters when they get half the racial bonus that elves get. Multiclassing was mentioned, but an elf can take wizard levels at liberty, giving him a familiar and hence Alertness for free, and an owl or a hawk gets you even more bonuses. Combine that with a class with spot as a class skill, plus Skill Focus (spot), and that would seem to give the maximum spot skill.

3) Maybe we just don't take advantage of it, but lowlight vision doesn't do a lot for us in the dungeon. The point about light sources making you a target is a good one, but lowlight vision requires a light source as well. We pretty much make it a point to have at least one character with darkvision.

--Axe

 

[Shin Okada]

Pickaxe,

Your Druid built is interesting. And it could be the main answer to current edition halflings. Actually, in Races of the Wild, racial substitution levels for Halfling Druid is more beneficial and interesting comparing to it's for Halfling Rogue. IMHO, designers in WotC is already aware of the fact that Halfling Rogue is rather no good in current edition. Reading CW (Outrider), Eberron (Dinosaurs), & Races of Wild, it is apparent that WotC is trying to make Halflings into a "rider race".

> 1) Elves
While Dexterity is good for various skills, for most classes, Con is more important.

Cleric, Fighter & Paladin wear Heavy Armor and thus high dex tend to be (wasted). Also, most of the Dex-based skills become impractical ones due to armor check penalty (unless a character has Mithral Full-Plate).

For Arcane Spellcasters, Con is still more important than Dex. Their hit dices are d4. Thus, each +1 con bonus means bigger percentage of total HP. Concentration is one of the most important skill for them. And, low Fort save is their biggest weakness and high Con compensate it. A failed Ref save rarely kill you instantaneously. But a failed Con save does.

High Dex is good for Rogues and Rangers, though. I think High Elf makes a nice Ranger and good (though somewhat squishy) rogue.

Regarding Weapon familiarity. Well, longsword is not the first class melee weapon anymore. There are d8 simple weapons such as Moningstar or Heavy Mace. Rapier is good for finesse-type fighters but Rogues and Rangers are already proficient with it. Bow proficiency is good sometimes. But unless you have good BAB and high Str, that does not mean much. For most wizards, Crossbow and Composite bow are not that much different.

2) Half-Elves as the best spotter

That is not my opinion. But I think they are Ok as they have low-light and yet has no penalty on Con and Cha. So they make good Clerics and paladins. Maybe good fighters and rangers, too.

3) Darkvision vs Low-Light

Darkvision and Low-Light vision both have their pros and cons.
Darkvision enables you to scout in complete darkness without carrying light source by yourself. So good for dungeon delving rogues.
On the other hand, Low-Light vision gives you longer LOS when there are some kind of dim light source. For example, with a bullseye lantern, a spellcaster with low-light vision can target something 120 ft. away. Also, low-light vision is great under moonlight. So low-light vision is good for a spellcaster who usually be amongst the main party with light source. Or, someone act in wild environment.

 

[Seeten]

I'd like to point out, again, this is a thread on HALF ELVES not halflings.

And both suck, Half-Elves AND Halflings, arguments to the contrary in this thread swaying me not at all.

 

[Shin Okada]

I still think Half-Elf is OK, Half-Orc is good too, and Halfling got the shaft.

And of course, Dwarf is slightly too good.

 

[HighlandsBear]

I think I've seen lowlight vision used like once in 3 years of 3/3.5 D&D. I guess my DMs just don't want to draw 120'+ of battlemap or something, but I can't see how its worth a feat. Besides the real power of the extra feat is when it leads to higher level feats in builder books and earlier/easier entrance to PrCs, so just comparing the power of one feat isn't enough. The only classes I can see half elves as even competitive in are bard and charisma based rogue where they can use all of their bonuses. However, they aren't particularly weak either and since they are quite playable I'm not that worried about minor imbalances. Elves on the other hand are handicapped by their -2 con in spite of some great abilities otherwise. I can't imagine an elf playing a class with less than d8 HD. They do make great rangers.

Halflings weak!!?! They get + 1 racial bonus on all saves for crying out loud! Yes, huge bonuses to attack but penalties to damage, no enhanced vision but big stealth skill and attack bonuses, and of course a move penalty but bonuses on move skills like jump and climb. Consider a halfling barbarian. With power attack the - 3 damage they suffer from smaller weapons and strength is reduced to -1. So, slower move and -1 damage compared to +2 AC, +1 initiative, +1 reflex, another +1 on all saves, + 2 on jump, listen, and climb skills, and a few more minor ablities. Also, speed is usually the easiest to fix as halflings can ride medium sized mounts that are usable in the dungeon environment. And this is a class they really shouldn't even be competitive in!

 

[Shin Okada]

My playgroup is using home-made battlemats with dry-erase marker. Each mats are 10 squares x 14 squares. Though our playing table is usually small, 2-8 of them are used simultaneously on the board. 120 ft. is just 24 squares. When travelling (or camping), encounter distance is often 100+ ft.

>.... and of course a move penalty but bonuses on move skills like jump and climb.

Don't be fooled by this. Halfling has -2 str. So those bonuses are already negated by it. What is worse, halflings are slow. 20 ft. movement gives them -6(!) penalty on their Jump checks. And Climb distance is based on the base speed, too (ouch!). In fact, they are still poor climber/jumper.

And damage output is not the worst disadvantage which a smaller melee fighter has. He suffer -4 penalty on almost all the melee special attacks, both for offence and defense. Canines trips. There are so many grappling monsters. And clever warriors will also try some tripping or disarming on a little brave barbarian. Also note, a small warrior cannot enjoy today's trend on Enlarge Person. Small size + enlarge = medium. He can't get longer reach.

 

[Roxlimn]

I would have to agree with Shin Okada with the use and power of Half-elves. This is reflected in race choice in my groups. Half Elf is a great choice for stealthy characters like Ranger, and Rogue, and especially Bard, and a more than decent choice for things like Wizard and Sorcerer, and even Bladesinger.

Without putting too fine a point on it, anytime you want a tougher Elf, you want a Half-Elf.

Low Light Vision is extremely good, especially in many underground settings. Many dungeons are pitch black, but many are illuminated by torches in wall settings, too, or phosphrescent fungi, or candles, all of which favor the Low Light character. Of course, with many parties requiring light of some sort anyway, it's almost always the case that the Low Light Half Elves see the farthest without having to deal with concealment.

Bringing along a light source is problematic, but it's ameliorated because most corridors are not long enough to exhaust the range of a bull's eye Lantern for a Low Light individual. That means that spotting chances are better for the Darkvision character (who has normal vision, after all, and is looking to spot a light source), but the Low Light character is at least better than normal vision characters.

It's in dimly lit moonlit outdoors or natural phosphorescent caverns that Low Light shines the best. With all normal vision characters being hampered by concealment chances, the Low Light characters can simply knock out the lights and SA like there was no tomorrow, while simultaneously ruining the SA chances of anyone in the opposing party.

Night is also (naturally!) the best time for Rogues (any Rogue!) to make scouting forays into known dangerous enemy areas, as the ambient darkness will give them more places in which to use their Hide skill. A collage of lighting conditions featuring mostly natural Shadowy Illumination areas (for normal vision characters) greatly favors the Low Light character, giving him room in which to hide while seeing everyone else quite clearly.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

One the great things about 3e is that it so flexible that a party can use good tactics to compensate for even glaring weaknesses. That said, if you have not noticed how valuable Lowlight can be either you are not paying attention or you have a DM that coddles you.

I recently played a game where Lowlight vision turned the tide for us. We got in a pitched battle, killed a bunch of enemies, but got overrun when we were attacked by reinforcements from another direction. We were forced to scatter into the night, abandonning our tank to his death (ouch!) but found we could use the terrain and hit & run tactics to pick off the human minions. Once the pesky humans were taken care of, we could move against the BBEG.

 

[Kathaer]

something called... Roleplaying?

Based on mechanics alone, why would anyone take a half-elf as a race? It's like a crappy mix of human and elf. They get gypped on the elven characteristics, and the only human trait they get is the Favored Class: Any. Why not be a human or an elf?

It's the same question as.. "why being a cleric, if a paladin can cure?"

Ehm... Something called "ROLE PLAYING"? ..


Well.. i always use to create Mixed pgs, i like to see in which direction they will go, the human part, or the other one... i actually play 2 half-elves, 1 Warrior/Sorceror (Ravenloft 3ed), 1 Wizard/Thief (Al-Qadim 2ed Clockwork mage) .. and i am Happy to play them, even without 3000 d20 to hit or something.. i like to play my chars, act them, else.. i would play ps2.. right?.

HALF ELF POWER!