Half-elves: What's the problem?

[devoblue]

The problem with halfelves is that once you have gone to the trouble of making up a character and you get to the stage of allocating feats and skills you realise that you could be making a much better character if you were using human instead, so you change.

But then if you decide to do it for the role-playing reasons, you need to come up with something interesting that is both different to Tanis and has a reason for being half-elf.

 

[Shin Okada]

In my opinion, half-elves (and half-orcs) are very, very slightly underpowered. And, I think that's just fine. That way, they are not really shafted, but yet people won't play as many as the other races. Which is just the right thing, since half-breeds aren't supposed to be common.

Wait a minute. It is somewhat off-topic but you say Half-Orcs are underpowered? Have you ever actually played that race or met a PC of that race? +2 Str and Darkvision are great enough. My main PC is a Half-Orc Rogue/Barbarian/Fighter. I have played him since the 1st level and now he is in 12th level. At every moment he has been one of the most useful member in the party.

Regarding Half-Elf. Well, yes I think it is a good alternative to human race. IMHO, the most significant racial feature is Low-Light Vision. Try to play a campaign involving a lot of wilderness encounter and night-camp. You need someone who has low-light vision and high Spot bonus. Also, Low-light vision and Dark Vision are very useful for spell casters. For frontal melee fighters, if they have their own light source, that is usually enough. All they need to see is something they can strike. But for spell casters, rage of vision is very, very important. And, unfortunately, Elves have low constitution score and that is a miserable feature for an arcane caster. So I prefer Dwarf, Gnome, or Half-Elf for an arcane caster.

One of my current PC is a Half-Elf Cleric. He is very useful. He can usually see up to 60 foot in a dark dungeon (often using sunrod). Up to 120 foot when using Daylight spell. As he is taking Spot as cross-class skill and wearing Eyes of the Eagles, he can be at least more than average night-watch. And He has chosen travel domain (wilderness lore is now a class-skill) and took Track feat. He could do the same things if he were an Elf. But if so, he got lower hp and lower fortitude save. And +2 Dex does not help him much as he already has Dex of 13 and wearing a Full-Plate.

Not just those half-races, but all the demihumans have some way to make their racial feature effective.

 

[Particle_Man]

In the campaigns I have played in, the dms universally ignore dim lighting problems, and so the lowlight vision ability is only usable in theory. Perhaps
things are unique to my part of the world in this regard?

In any character creation system that used point allocation, the elven penalty to con can be worked around. Pretty much the same if you are allowed to choose which rolled scores go to which stats. The exception is if CON is meant to be UBER-high, but that doesn't come up much (those that want to do that play dwarves or gnomes).

And I would definitly take a feat of my choice and extra maxed class skill of my choice over the "elf-lite" abilities. If I really want those abilities, I will go for the real elf, and get the extra weapon profs, upgrade in search, spot, listen, and ability to stay awake longer (and thus take extra watches).

The sole reason I can think of to take a half-elf is a) If you really want those elf-lite abilities and have some uber-cool multi-class option and/or b) you want to get into the prestige class Arcane Archer in some non-wizard way.

That's why I think half-elves and half-orcs should get something extra, like a bonus to fort saves for being hardy half-breeds. It won't make either race broken, but will give a little something to make the races more appealling.

Oh, and in some campaign worlds, half-elves would be MORE common than elves (assuming half-elves are not sterile, and given their humanish tendencies to travel and settle anywhere), so the idea that they should be rare seems to me to be driven by campaign-specific needs, and should not be used as justifications for the core rules.

 

[Shin Okada]

In the campaigns I have played in, the dms universally ignore dim lighting problems, and so the lowlight vision ability is only usable in theory. Perhaps
things are unique to my part of the world in this regard?

IMHO darkness and vision are very important part of game balance since the early days of D&D, and you should not ignore. Especially if you want to enjoy the game balance taken by designers,

Regarding Elves,

My play group is using 32 point buy. And players around me are thinking that even using point-buy rule, Elf's -2 Con is significant disadvantage. I don't say elfves suck. But at least, people think twice before choosing an Elf. And Elf's +2 Dex rarely help much unless one try to play a rogue. Remember there is Max Dex bonus to AC thing. On the other hands, Con is, the higher, the better. And that is your PC's life.

 

[Guacamole]

as it stands

There's no reason, imo, to take the half-elf as a race if you are interested in playing a 1st level character that is even remotely competative with any other race. I also think the xp penalty rules truly suck. Since I've eliminated those penalties, and since that nerfs the advantage of favored classes (all gone, infact) I have decided that players who want the "flavor" of a half-elf can play either an elf or a human and call him a "half-elf".

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

The problem with halfelves is that once you have gone to the trouble of making up a character and you get to the stage of allocating feats and skills you realise that you could be making a much better character if you were using human instead, so you change.

I think this is the crux of it.

In 3e we tend to think more about our character's development from a mechanics perspective. This is because we can. It was impossible in 1e and in 2e we were limited to skills. Now we can throw feats, ability scores, and classes into the fray. So there's a greater temptation to think about how the character will progress rather than let it just happen on the fly.

In the case of half-elves, you can generally see where you'd be better off picking either elf or human instead. So that's what you do.

Although, I want it known for the record that in Neverwinter Nights I played a half-elf ranger to level 20 and did so without difficulty. "Weakest combination"! Feh!

 

[Zappo]

"Supposed to"? Thats an individual campaign decision, not a core rule call.

D&D isn't a 100% generic system. It has a lot of implied setting informations, from the presence of clerics to the magical system. In this implied setting, halfbreeds are uncommon. A setting where halfelves are common should probably modify their stats to reflect this.

As for half-orcs, I have both played one and seen played quite a few. In my opinion they are fine just like half-elves, but some people feel they are too weak.

 

[Pants]

Re: as it stands

There's no reason, imo, to take the half-elf as a race if you are interested in playing a 1st level character that is even remotely competative with any other race. I also think the xp penalty rules truly suck. Since I've eliminated those penalties, and since that nerfs the advantage of favored classes (all gone, infact) I have decided that players who want the "flavor" of a half-elf can play either an elf or a human and call him a "half-elf".

I don't think that anyone can justifiably claim that half-elves are 'too weak' when a house rule has been used to make them weak. Really, if kicking out a core rule causes them to be too weak in your campaign, then you should either a) bring the multiclass penalties back or b) give them something else.
I do think the half-elf is kind of weak, though. Just a bit.

Just my two copper pieces

 

[Hejdun]

I've played a half-elf before, and in a hack and slash party, he held his own. I particularly found the Favored Class: Any to be the half-elf's saving grace.

Wait a minute. It is somewhat off-topic but you say Half-Orcs are underpowered? Have you ever actually played that race or met a PC of that race?

Unfortunately, I have yet to play a half-orc character, and there's a distinct reason for that. The half-orc is the most one dimensional race available. Unless you enjoy the challenge, there's no reason why one would play a half-orc other than as the generic stupid front line fighter. There is horrendously little reason to pick a half-orc and be something OTHER than a fighter or barbarian.

Are half-orc barbarians underpowered? Not really. The half-orc is very good at what it does, slice and dice. The thing that makes half-orcs suck is that that's the ONLY thing they can do efficiently. If you were going to play a wizard, is there ANY reason you would pick a half-orc? It's like intentionally gimping yourself.

 

[Djeta Thernadier]

I chose to play a half elf mainly for story. My half elf had a human father and an elf mother, both of whom are now deceased. She struggles to try and figure out which world she belongs in, she was raised in the human world, and doesn't look very much like an elf, but she sees the way the humans in the world our game is set in treat the elves and it bugs her. So there's that. It also seemed fitting for her because she's really curious about everything and loves nature. I had a great time coming up with her history and personality and I think both of these things add to the story for my group.
As far as technical reasons, being a half elf hasn't helped me out all that much. The low light vision has never really come into play for me as of yet. But it's still a fun race to play.
Not saying it's the only race I'd play, they all have their advantages/disadvantages, but it's certainly an interesting one.

~Sheri