Half-giant 'Powerful Build' from XPH

[Goblyn]

From the 3.5 SRD:
• Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.
Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.
A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Emphasis mine. Are people missing this sentence?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Emphasis mine. Are people missing this sentence?

What point are you trying to make?

A Medium creature can wield weapons designed for a Large creature, with a -2 penalty.

A Medium half-giant can wield weapons designed for a Large creature, with no penalty.

If a weapon's category is changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed, it's too big to use.

-Hyp.

 

[lkj]

Emphasis mine. Are people missing this sentence?

Well, that was exactly the sentence I was looking for clarification on. But Hypersmurf explained the details just fine. The only argument might be that the size shift preventing the use of a larger weapon or the requirement that a large one-handed weapon be used with two hands could potentially be considered a 'penalty'. But juxtaposed against the clearly demarcated -2 penalty, such an interpretation is far from clear.
But hey, the half-giant in the monster section interpreted it that way! So my half-giant will too (smile)!

AD

 

[MatthewJHanson]

What point are you trying to make?

I think he is suggestiong that a weapon's handedness being shifted for being a size larger could be considered a "penalty" even though not "A negative modifier to a die roll."

I think the intent of the ability was to allow half giants to use weapons as through they were large creatures (or medium).

 

[Laman Stahros]

Based on the examples in Races of Stone for goliaths, and the fact that the ability is written the same way (yeh, I know, 'cut and paste', proves nothing), I think they intended it to be number 2.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I think he is suggestiong that a weapon's handedness being shifted for being a size larger could be considered a "penalty" even though not "A negative modifier to a die roll."

By 'What point?" I meant "Are you highlighting that sentence as support for interpretation 1 or interpretation 2?"

To me, that sentence is exactly what I1 says. So if he's highlighting it as support for I2, it would be amusing to me

-Hyp.

 

[Cam Banks]

Using weapons designed for a larger creature clearly has 2 components to it: the penalty to attacks for size difference, and the shift in handedness required. The Powerful Build racial feature only addresses the first part of this. You could address the second part of it with the Monkey Grip feat (which does not address the size difference penalty but does eliminate the shift in handedness).

So, half-giant with Monkey Grip = Medium character using Large longsword exactly the same way a Large character would.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Hypersmurf]

Using weapons designed for a larger creature clearly has 2 components to it: the penalty to attacks for size difference, and the shift in handedness required. The Powerful Build racial feature only addresses the first part of this. You could address the second part of it with the Monkey Grip feat (which does not address the size difference penalty but does eliminate the shift in handedness).

Right, as written.

But that doesn't explain why the example Half-Giant uses a Large Greatsword without Monkey Grip... impossible, as the ability is written, which suggests that either he just carries it to look cool, or the person who wrote the sample character assumed Powerful Build does something other than what it says it does.

-Hyp.

 

[Cam Banks]

But that doesn't explain why the example Half-Giant uses a Large Greatsword without Monkey Grip... impossible, as the ability is written, which suggests that either he just carries it to look cool, or the person who wrote the sample character assumed Powerful Build does something other than what it says it does.

If the person who created the racial feature and the one who wrote the sample NPC are the same person, then clearly it wasn't written well. In fact, it seems as if the problem lies in the use of the word "penalty". It should really just say that the half-giant may use weapons designed for a creature one size category larger, and then give an example, instead of muddy up the definition.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Hypersmurf]

If the person who created the racial feature and the one who wrote the sample NPC are the same person, then clearly it wasn't written well.

No argument there!

-Hyp.