D&D 5E Half-Orc Variants: Tel-Amhothlan and Dworg

[Winterthorn]

I remember these! I ran my 3.5E campaign in Kingdoms of Kalamar for over three years. My players and I had a good time. I also invested in the Midnight setting it was the only "dark" setting that appealed to me - although Farland has caught my attention.

So regarding your 5E interpretation of these two races, Tel-Amhothlan and Dworg, I think you've done a fine job capturing their flavour. Just looking at my PH and I'll post additional comment...

Edit 1: it's interesting you went with subraces, whereas there are no subraces for the half-elf or half-orc. I like the idea, but it is creating too many options? OTOH it begs for a subrace treatment for at least the core half-elf given there are plenty of elven subraces, lol.

Edit 2: for the Lolthbreed I would make one change, replace the Drow Magic with Drow Weapon Training. I think that would be a better fit conceptually as a Lolthbreed Tel-Amhothlan seems to me more likely to excel in weapon training rather than spellcasting.

Edit 3: I am reminded of the half-hobgoblin from KoK, didn't someone at ENWorld do that one recently for 5E?

Otherwise, these look ready to play test with friends to see how they work out.

 

[QuietBrowser]

I remember these! I ran my 3.5E campaign in Kingdoms of Kalamar for over three years. My players and I had a good time. I also invested in the Midnight setting it was the only "dark" setting that appealed to me - although Farland has caught my attention.

So regarding your 5E interpretation of these two races, Tel-Amhothlan and Dworg, I think you've done a fine job capturing their flavour. Just looking at my PH and I'll post additional comment...

Edit 1: it's interesting you went with subraces, whereas there are no subraces for the half-elf or half-orc. I like the idea, but it is creating too many options? OTOH it begs for a subrace treatment for at least the core half-elf given there are plenty of elven subraces, lol.

Edit 2: for the Lolthbreed I would make one change, replace the Drow Magic with Drow Weapon Training. I think that would be a better fit conceptually as a Lolthbreed Tel-Amhothlan seems to me more likely to excel in weapon training rather than spellcasting.

Edit 3: I am reminded of the half-hobgoblin from KoK, didn't someone at ENWorld do that one recently for 5E?

Otherwise, these look ready to play test with friends to see how they work out.

Firstly, thank you so much for the kind words! Now, to comment on your comments...

#1: I went with the subrace approach for several different reasons. Firstly, it adds divergence to the canon half-orc. Secondly, it emphasizes the comparative specialness of these hybrids; it makes the blending orc with dwarf or elf into something uinstable and unpredictable, instead of the "distilled orc" approach to the canon half-orc. Thirdly, there's... well, not a lot to either of the namesake races in 3e, so I had to get inventive.

#1.5: There are actually rules in the SCAG for doing Half-Elves as a subrace.

#2: I appreciate the sentiment, but... I must disagree. I don't like making racial weapon proficiencies into traits for half-breeds because, realistically, those racial weapon proficiencies are more a cultural thing than an actual biological thing. Drow-blooded orc/elves seeem, to me, far more likely to inherit the innate spellcasting ability of their drow parents than to be specifically trained in drow fighting styles.

#3: I do have a Half-Goblin(oid) race here on EnWorld that was inspired by both the KoK Half-Hobgoblin and the Dragonlance Half-Goblin (which also covers half-bugbears and half-hobgoblins), but that was posted ages ago.

Anyway, appreciate it! If I only had somebody to playtest these races for me...

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm not being sensitive. The simple fact is that I find "Dwork" a poor choice of names for its obvious juvenile connotations, and your arguments on altering the subraces are unconvincing. Especially if your argument is citing the number of racial features as evidence because, firstly, there is no set/mandated limit in terms of racial abilities, and secondly, neither of these variant half-orcs are actually superior in terms of numbers of racial traits possessed to their pureblooded relatives, especially if you ignore Darkvision (normal or superior) and Sunlight Sensitivity.

Dwarves have 3 racial features as "core" (Dwarven Resilience, Dwarven Combat Training, Stonecunning, and 4 if you count that nameless trait that lets them ignore the movement penalty for heavy armor), and 1 or 2 racial features unique to each subrace (Dwarven Toughness for Hill Dwarves, Dwarve Armor Training and technically a +2 to Str instead of the normal +1 for Mountain Dwarves, Duergar Resilience and Duergar Magic for Duergar). Dworgs have 2 "core" racial features and 2 racial features per subrace.

Elves have 3 racial features as "core" (Keen Senses, Fey Ancestry, Trance) and 2 or 3 more per subrace (Elf Weapon Training/Cantrip Extra Language for High Elves, Elf Weapon Training/Fleet of Foot/Mask of the Wild for Wood Elves, Drow Magic and Drow Weapon Training for Drow). In comparison, the Tel-Amhothlan has 3 "core" racial traits, two racial traits for the Orcish Brutality and Elven Grace subraces, and 1 racial trait for the Fae Magic and Lolthbreed subraces.

But... it could be I'm wrong. Does anyone else have opinions on this matter? Am I being defensive, or is there really less power to these races than Neogod22 is arguing?

You came off too defensive. Which probably drove a lot of people away.

The first race would be fine if it were to stand alone. It has 1-2 too many good subclass features after the subrace parts are added in.

The 2nd race I don't really have a problem with including any of it's subclass combinations.

 

[Winterthorn]

#1.5: There are actually rules in the SCAG for doing Half-Elves as a subrace.

Yes, indeed, I have my copy of SCAG on hand... page 116. Thanks for pointing that out.

Re playtesting: I am developing my own campaign, and I am open to letting players try out what you developed, however, it would be a while before things get off the ground. I'll save this thread for the interim

 

[QuietBrowser]

Yes, indeed, I have my copy of SCAG on hand... page 116. Thanks for pointing that out.

Re playtesting: I am developing my own campaign, and I am open to letting players try out what you developed, however, it would be a while before things get off the ground. I'll save this thread for the interim

Well, now that's a surprising thing to hear! Thank you so much for the generosity; I hope they both work out well for your players.

 

[Matrix Sorcica]

There are half-orc/half-dwarves in Ghosts of DragonSpear Castle, called "dworcs".