Half Race Appreciation Society: Half Elf most popular race choice in BG3

[Scribe]

Subraces are already racist.

There is no Elf. The biological attribute of water breathing sea elves, is not racist.

 

[Micah Sweet]

It's real simple. These ones breath water. These ones run faster. These ones see better.

That's it.

Nothing racist about it.

Apparently mechanical differences between PC species of any kind are racist now.

 

[Scribe]

Apparently mechanical differences between PC species of any kind are racist now.

I mean they have already pushed species into the most boring aspect of ones character, I certainly hope that Wizards doesnt feel compelled to remove a few of the last vestiages of anything interesting into a bland 'pick a few spells' package of traits.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Antimagic exists as a spell, but it also exists sporadically as "zones". Any species with innate spell casting can have its features negate by an antimagic zone or spell, including psionics.

The existence of a "subrace" in the Human species or in a species that is too humanlike, is inherently racist.

I realize that prehistoric hominid species existed. But reallife racists misused the concept to "other" ethnic groups and to dehumanize them, by pseudoscientifically referring to them as if separate "biological branches" of the human species. The D&D is rife with this kind of racism. 2024 must eliminate every trace of it, including the overtly and highly racist D&D Elf traditions. I can hardly read a paragraph about elves from earlier editions or fan sites without groaning because of its racist extremism. Even the fantasy racism which is problematic anyway tends to be made worse by incorporating reallife racist tropes into the setting narratives and "subraces".

Antimagic is only defined by the Antimagic Field spell. Even the Beholder's central eye ray references it. However they define that spell going forward will be the rule to go by. For now, we accept that spell definition as it is. There are also no rules for "Dead Magic" like from older editions. Next.

I agree that "subrace" like "half-breed" is problematic. Looking at the UA, they don't use "subrace" so that is solved. Next.

Older editions of D&D have racist themes in them. Yup. That needs to be handled in the flavor text and narrative going forward. Good news! Just look at the entry for Orcs in the first Origins UA. It mentions ancient conflicts, but doesn't suggest that it persists into the current age. It does a great job of keeping the proud strength traditions, history of rising to conflict, but no assumption that they are hateful racists. They leave that for the campaign-specific lore saying certain groups are racist. It is fine for the BG3 goblin tribe to be hateful racists because they are representing a specific hateful/fearful tribe/local goblin culture in the campaign story who has been dominated by evil forces since before they could remember. But the goblins of Eberron don't have that Maglubiyet baggage.

Racism is cultural/societal, not biological. The solution is to just remove the references of racial prejudice from species (including removing divinely-mandated racism across the cosmos like they did with the Orc entry) and use racism only as a villainous theme in specific fantasy world cultures of campaign settings (like the goblins and gith in BG3).

None of that is solved by consolidating all variants of each respective species into their base species and none of that is solved by re-defining "Culture." Those "solutions" don't make sense, and would cause more confusion and frustration. People want to have variant non-humans because of their own historical gaming stories. I think it would be better to remove the reference to racist tropes and language, while preserving the variants that so many people appreciate for scores of years. The challenge is getting the right language and terms into place.

 

[Yaarel]

I mean they have already pushed species into the most boring aspect of ones character, I certainly hope that Wizards doesnt feel compelled to remove a few of the last vestiages of anything interesting into a bland 'pick a few spells' package of traits.

The Elf needs to "pick spells" because there are so many different types of Elves across the D&D traditions. Only a freeform design can accommodate whatever type is a players favorite.

But other species lack such variation and dont need this kind of openended versatility.

The playtest Dwarf is mostly solid. There is only one Dwarf species, and all of the dwarven cultures (Hill, Mountain, Gold, Shield) share the same species traits.
• Darkvision (nonmagical)
• Poison resistance
• Hit point increase
• Tremorsense (nonmagical?)

However the Forge Wise trait seems cultural: a Tool Proficiency. It might be better if it instead grants an advantage to any ability check that shapes or investigates stone, including gems, metal, minerals, and perhaps any kind of soil including sand.

The playtest omits the Duergar, but its Invisibility and Enlarge/Reduce spells might come from a cultural background feat.

 

[Yaarel]

I agree that "subrace" like "half-breed" is problematic. Looking at the UA, they don't use "subrace" so that is solved. Next.

It is insufficient to change the name if it still means "subrace". If it is somehow both the same species but not the same species, it comes across as racist.

Presumably it is normal for socalled Wood, High, Drow, Eladrin, Astral, Shadar-kai, Sea, Wild, Avariel, etcetera to intermingle with each other and produce offspring if they are all members of the same species. These offspring need to have the same species traits as their parents do.

 

[Scribe]

The Elf needs to "pick spells" because there are so many different types of Elves across the D&D traditions.

No need for this at all, I reviewed this last night actually. If you desire more flexibility pick High Elf, or house rule.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean they have already pushed species into the most boring aspect of ones character, I certainly hope that Wizards doesnt feel compelled to remove a few of the last vestiages of anything interesting into a bland 'pick a few spells' package of traits.

Apparently at least one poster on a major fan board wants them to do just that.

 

[Scribe]

The playtest omits the Duergar, but its Invisibility and Enlarge/Reduce spells might come from a cultural background feat.

I'm pretty sure because it's in MoTM

Where it retains the biological abilities it should.

 

[Yaarel]

I'm pretty sure because it's in MoTM

Where it retains the biological abilities it should.

The Duergar is in Mordenkainen (Presents Monsters of the Multiverse). There it is a separate species with species traits that are very different from the playtest Dwarf.

If that is the reason the playtest omits the Duergar when describing the Dwarf species,

then

the Sea Elf is a Non-Elf species. Mordenkainen also lists the Sea Elf as a separate species.

In other words, there is no such thing as an Elf that breathes water (except when casting a spell to do so).


That said. I am comfortable with the Duergar being a Non-Dwarf species. I am also comfortable with updating the Duergar to be the same thing as the playtest Dwarf and making the spells come from a Duergar culture background feat.

I prefer the Sea Elf to be a Triton/Elf multispecies and the Avariel to be an Aarakocra/Elf multispecies.

This makes what an Elf is simple. Choose spells. Drow, High, Wood, etcetera are strictly cultures.

I have mixed feelings about the Eladrin. Maybe Eldadrin, Astral, and Shadar-kai are a separate Non-Elf species. But it seems just as easy to rewrite them as a normal Elf whose cultures tend to encourage choosing the Misty Step spell.

 

[Scribe]

If that is the reason the playtest omits the Duergar when describing the Dwarf species,

then

the Sea Elf is a Non-Elf species. Mordenkainen also lists the Sea Elf as a separate species.

In other words, there is no such thing as an Elf that breathes water (except when casting a spell to do so).


That said. I am comfortable with the Duergar being a Non-Dwarf species. I am also comfortable with updating the Duergar to be the same thing as the playtest Dwarf and making the spells come from a Duergar culture background feat.

The game doesnt support your view.

These are all variations on a species. There is no single Dwarf, or Elf. There are various species that are related and modified by either magic, or other external influence, to gain distinct biological traits and attributes.

That is not to say that cultural impacts could not also contribute to the definition of these game defined containers which are called a Species (capital S) Character (capital C) option.

This is also not to say that you cannot house rule, or develop your own system to replace that which you dont like. I built a framework of 14 Species last night, based on the Origins UA Template. Its painfully easy, and very quick, because Wizards has already removed so much that actually made a Species (capital S Game Construct) unique.

Monsters of the Multiverse is fully compatible with the next update of the game, per Wizards.

 

[Yaarel]

The game doesnt support your view.

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These are all variations on a species. There is no single Dwarf, or Elf. There are various species that are related and modified by either magic, or other external influence, to gain distinct biological traits and attributes.

That is not to say that cultural impacts could not also contribute to the definition of these game defined containers which are called a Species (capital S) Character (capital C) option.

This is also not to say that you cannot house rule, or develop your own system to replace that which you dont like. I built a framework of 14 Species last night, based on the Origins UA Template. Its painfully easy, and very quick, because Wizards has already removed so much that actually made a Species (capital S Game Construct) unique.

Monsters of the Multiverse is fully compatible with the next update of the game, per Wizards.

You are correct where Mordenkainen says "Creature Type. ... You are considered an Elf".

However, to the degree that is effectively identical to a "subrace", it comes across as racist.

Relatedly, as members of the same Elf species, what are the species traits of a child whose parents are Sea Elf and Drow Elf?

 

[Scribe]

Relatedly, as members of the same Elf species, what are the species traits of a child whose parents are Sea Elf and Drow Elf?

Undefined as that is a spiral of discussion (the evidence of which is dozens of pages in this thread) that just need not be scrutinized.

There is nothing racist about a species being related to a common ancestral or mythological root, in a game where Gods are real and 'made' the various Species.

 

[Remathilis]

Undefined as that is a spiral of discussion (the evidence of which is dozens of pages in this thread) that just need not be scrutinized.

There is nothing racist about a species being related to a common ancestral or mythological root, in a game where Gods are real and 'made' the various Species.

Easy. Pick the species traits of whichever one you want and describe the character however you want.

It's like it's easy and people keep demanding it be hard.

 

[Scribe]

Easy. Pick the species traits of whichever one you want and describe the character however you want.

It's like it's easy and people keep demanding it be hard.

Thats a solution sure.

 

[Yaarel]

Undefined as that is a spiral of discussion (the evidence of which is dozens of pages in this thread) that just need not be scrutinized.

There is nothing racist about a species being related to a common ancestral or mythological root, in a game where Gods are real and 'made' the various Species.

There is everything racist about mythologies that say the Divine "made" other ethnicities less human or cursed or separate.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

It is insufficient to change the name if it still means "subrace". If it is somehow both the same species but not the same species, it comes across as racist.

Presumably it is normal for socalled Wood, High, Drow, Eladrin, Astral, Shadar-kai, Sea, Wild, Avariel, etcetera to intermingle with each other and produce offspring if they are all members of the same species. These offspring need to have the same species traits as their parents do.

Thanks for your clarifying your point. I disagree. Words matter. I am confident there is design room to have variants and the naming convention will be acceptable.

 

[Scribe]

There is everything racist about mythologies that say the Divine "made" other ethnicities less human or cursed or separate.

Which, is not a thing at all in the current game, nor the Origins UA.

So, like @Mirrorrorrim noted, good, great. Next?

 

[Yaarel]

Criticisms about racism in D&D are likely to intensify in the coming years.

The concept of elven subraces is mainly a historical artifact deriving from racist assumptions within the literature of Tolkien in the last century. The D&D elven traditions are overtly racist and sometimes extremist. Elven subraces must discontinue in D&D.

2024 needs to fix the issues now during the playtest.

Updating to clarify a concept of species, instead of a concept of fantasy racism, is part of the solution.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Criticisms about racism in D&D are likely to intensify in the coming years.

The concept of elven subraces is mainly a historical artifact deriving from racist assumptions within the literature of Tolkien in the last century. The D&D elven traditions are overtly racist and sometimes extremist. Elven subraces must discontinue in D&D.

2024 needs to fix the issues now during the playtest.

Updating to clarify a concept of species, instead of a concept of fantasy racism, is part of the solution.

I look forward to seeing your Fantasy Heartbreaker where all your issues have been fixed, or failing that, a copy of the sternly worded letter to WotC you're no doubt in the process of drafting explaining all the things they "need" to do to meet your personal standards.