D&D (2024) Half Race Appreciation Society: Half Elf most popular race choice in BG3

[Yaarel]

What about "subspecies"? Basically, can we call them something different, or is that also bad?

Referring to an other ethnicity as if a "subspecies" or a "breed", is precisely the racist problem.

The gist of it is. D&D cannot refer to a Human species (or a species that is too close to a human) as having subspecies.


Either. There is only a single Elf species and all the diversity is ethnic and cultural.
Or. Elf is a creature type like Giant, Humanoid, and Dragon, thus has separate species.

If exploring the latter, the difference between one Elf species and an other Elf species cannot be cosmetic. Their features would need to be completely different from each other. They really would need to feel like completely different species.

That said. I prefer the former because it is simpler. Saying one Elf has wings because of a spell and an other Elf can breathe water because of a spell, is fine. Any feature that can be done and undone, wont feel like an "other" "breed".

 

[Scribe]

Elf is a creature type like Giant, Humanoid, and Dragon, thus has separate species.

It literally is. Find me the Human that can breath underwater, or live for 700 years.

A Fire Giant, is not a Cloud Giant, is to a Sea Elf, is not a Wood Elf.

They are different. There is no one Elf.

 

[Kinematics]

I wonder if some of the issue here is the improper use of the term "species" when really what's meant here is "genus".

My own assertion:

Yes, it's improper use of terms, but no, it's not species vs genus. The disconnect is that a D&D "race" has no equivalent term in real life whatsoever. It is not a race (eg: white, black, asian, etc), nor is it a species, nor is it a genus. It is not an evolutionary construct, because races in D&D did not evolve; they were created by gods.

Pointing out the failings of trying to make "species" work, particularly on the interbreeding aspect, on D&D races is like an explosives expert pointing out that a pinch of bat guano and sulfer isn't nearly enough material to create an explosion with a 20' radius. It's completely nonsensical on its face because at its core, it is not the real world.

I have my own interpretation on how reproduction and such works in the world of D&D, though obviously it's personal and not objective. But it makes a lot more sense to me than trying to fit real world categorizations onto completely alien concepts.

Spoiler: My own take

The basis of my own thought is simply the existence of the soul. In D&D, the soul is very real. You can cast Speak with Dead and converse with the soul. It's shepherded to an underworld that you could actually visit, by a goddess that you could actually converse with. You could summon the soul back to bring the person back to life, or to bind to an undead shell.

The intelligent species all have souls (as far as I am aware), and they were all created by gods. Any that don't have listed creators are still assumed to have been created at some point, somehow, by some god. Non-intelligent species don't have souls. (Yes, elves didn't have souls to start with, but they have for a long while now, so I'm mostly ignoring that quirk of history.) So my interpretation is that souls are what make intelligence creatures what they are. They are what the gods created, and what then gave form to the physical body of each race.

A new soul is created from the intermingling of the souls of its parents, like ink mixing together. There's a bit of influence from the individuality of the parents, plus a bit of chaos mixed in, but the core remains itself. The child of human parents is human because the mingling of the human souls created another human soul. On the other hand, if the parents were human and elf, you'd have a typical half-elf.

And, particularly, the body is shaped by the soul. A human soul will grow a human body. A dwarf soul will grow a dwarf body. A half-elf soul will grow a half-elf body. Etc. There is no restriction on breeding due to species or genus or whatever, because it is not genetics which defines the child's form.

I would speculate further that for elves, beyond just the mixing of the souls, the child is influenced by the spirit of the land around it as well. For example, elves that live in or around the sea would take in certain aspects of the sea when their soul is created, allowing breathing underwater. This leads to the "speciation" that gives us sea elves, or wood elves, or dark elves, or whatever. (This can conceptually tie in to the older idea of elves having "spirits" rather than souls.)

Overall, two parents having a child create a child soul which binds to a physical element (the mother's egg) that grows and is shaped by the essence of the soul itself. The physical body will grow to match the soul's identity.

So, any god-created race can interbreed with any other without having to jump through hoops trying to explain things using genetics or other real-world stuff. Species is not a thing, and doesn't matter.

 

[Scribe]

Pointing out the failings of trying to make "species" work, particularly on the interbreeding aspect, on D&D races is like an explosives expert pointing out that a pinch of bat guano and sulfer isn't nearly enough material to create an explosion with a 20' radius. It's completely nonsensical on its face because at its core, it is not the real world.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Referring to an other ethnicity as if a "subspecies" or a "breed", is precisely the racist problem.

The gist of it is. D&D cannot refer to a Human species (or a species that is too close to a human) as having subspecies.


Either. There is only a single Elf species and all the diversity is ethnic and cultural.
Or. Elf is a creature type like Giant, Humanoid, and Dragon, thus has separate species.

If exploring the latter, the difference between one Elf species and an other Elf species cannot be cosmetic. Their features would need to be completely different from each other. They really would need to feel like completely different species.

That said. I prefer the former because it is simpler. Saying one Elf has wings because of a spell and an other Elf can breathe water because of a spell, is fine. Any feature that can be done and undone, wont feel like an "other" "breed".

How is that simpler? The rules of D&D say that makes no sense.

 

[cranberry]

Species may not be the best term, but it's better than race.

 

[Mistwell]

There is nothing racist about breathing water.

There is something racist about having "subraces".

But they're not called subraces. We can think of a better term without the same connotation, without literally changing everything in a way people don't want.

 

[Mistwell]

It is not an evolutionary construct, because races in D&D did not evolve; they were created by gods.

Interestingly this might be why Yaarel in particular has an issue with it. His take on religion and D&D is somewhat...varied...from how WOTC supports the D&D settings.

 

[MoonSong]

Back in 2e, when they both weren't considered the same subrace, I played a half-high, half-gray elf. Not the craziest combo, but it did happen.

At least it wasn't half-valley elf n_n.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

Referring to an other ethnicity as if a "subspecies" or a "breed", is precisely the racist problem.

I mean.... could solve that by making 'elf' a genus and not a species. Then each type of elf is a fully separate species. As closely related to each other as lions and tigers.